Mongrel TLAH Pro demo

Post links to youtube videos of your cabs.
Forum rules
Only links to videos of our cabs are allowed. You tube only, no facebook.
Post Reply
Message
Author
slavedave
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:32 pm

Mongrel TLAH Pro demo

#1 Post by slavedave »

Short video of the BFM TLAH Pro I recently built (See this thread http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=19827)

Recorded on a Zoom H2n to try to improve on the camera's internal mic. You will notice the (cough) ambience of the room that we have to work with. It actually sounds a lot better when present and when it fill sup with people but this was just a pre-service run through of a song. If I get a chance I will try to get more videos in the future.
I hope you can get a sense of spread from the high frequencies around the room. My conclusion after running it for the last month is that it has a much better sound footprint across the spectrum than our Bose L1 diy job that we have used for the last number of years (that I built from scratch). The gaps in instruments that were apparent in the mid bass are now filled! I find it much easier to "locate" this speaker than the diy Bose l1 which spread out amazingly well and disguised where the sound fwas coming form in a very natural and neutral way. The TLAH is just different - not particularly worse, just different.
What you lose in this dispersion / placement phenomenon is made up for in sound quality. I have not resorted to using the BFM T18 yet (which we always used on our old system) since the TLAH does pretty well for the instruments we use. Piano is well covered, as is percussion (Bodhran, cajon etc) I played cello on my EWI4000s for one song today and the bottom register sounded so full. I have played NI Scarbee's Pre-Bass library through it to and it sound great. (One thing is that the T18 difeintiely added that extra thump to video and pre-recorded music like rap / sound fx so I would add it to the TLAH Pro if we need to).

Youtube clip is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDSJa9gpwD8
Would love comments if you have anything to add or ask questions about.

Oh yes, we are using NO volume at the output stage - it really can go a lot louder than this!

Thanks Bill!

User avatar
Tom Smit
Posts: 7457
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: Mongrel TLAH Pro demo

#2 Post by Tom Smit »

I'm glad that your TLAH is working for you! You mentioned that it is "different" than the other cab used, and I was wondering if you/they are well satisfied.

If you add the T18, there will be a bit more depth, about an octave maybe.
TomS

slavedave
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:32 pm

Re: Mongrel TLAH Pro demo

#3 Post by slavedave »

Tom,
Our old system consisted of a single, tall. thin column design housing 32 full range 2" Tangband W2-852SE drivers in a 2ohm arrangement coupled to a T18 for low frequency response. The drivers were stacked from floor level up to approx 7 foot high. Efficiency was excellent and, for whatever reason (physics I guess), from the mixing position it really sounded like the speech and music were coming from the performers / pastor's location. It was difficult to "trace" the sound source back to the line array itself which made for a very transparent listening experience.
This is not the case with the TLAH Pro though. I can clearly recognise the source of the sound compared to the performers / speech. At first, this bothered me a lot and I was concerned that I had built a system that was inferior in it's transparency (note - not sound quality) and I suspect that this is more to do with shorter piezo line in the TLAH vs the very long array line in our Bose L1 take-off. Having the longer line in "the stick", as we nicknamed it, must have contributed to some sort of wave pattern in the high frequencies that eminated in a more consistent pattern out into the gym. I don't have the proper audio language for this, I am afraid.
However, having used the TLAH Pro for a month now, I have had zero complaints about the nature of the sound dispersion from anyone in the congregation. In fact, (outside of a couple of comments on the level of sound being too high) the feedback has been positive so far. Remember that most people that are there on a Sunday morning are not critical audiophiles. Even the musicians, who would be a little more discerning, are happy with the new set up. It still means that we do not have to run monitors since the dispersion of the TLAH is such that they can get audio cues from the speaker itself still (something "the stick" was excellent at. We could get a higher volume before feedback result with "the stick" but we are working on it still).
One huge benefit of the TLAH Pro that contributed significantly to the choice of build was to be able to simplify our set up significantly. A major drawback of the "stick and T18" arrangement was that it needed significant processing through a Driverack PA to get a great sound. Crossover and eq was absolutely necessary. We wanted to do away with the external processing if possible so the full range character of the TLAH Pro fitted the design requirements. This has been a successful outcome so far. Instead of carting out a rack with the desk, Driverack, power amp and sundries each week, we can use a Behringer powered amp utilising the onboard graphic and channel eq's to get the sound we want - fed straight into the speaker cab. This is a much more straightforward set up that will be easier to train people with.
Finally, the audio recording doesn't fully do justice to the sound quality in the room. In the video, the gentleman leading with the guitar is playing a Lowden acoustic. It is a bespoke instrument built by his friend George Lowden (the neck is made from a reclaimed mahogany church pew that George specifically chose for this gent since he would be using it in a church setting - wonderful legacy going on there). It is easily the nicest tone in a guitar I have heard to date and the morning I used the TLAH Pro with his guitar I couldn't help but smile at the reproduction of the instrument through the system. It was beautiful.

User avatar
Tom Smit
Posts: 7457
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: Mongrel TLAH Pro demo

#4 Post by Tom Smit »

slavedave wrote: Finally, the audio recording doesn't fully do justice to the sound quality in the room. In the video, the gentleman leading with the guitar is playing a Lowden acoustic. It is a bespoke instrument built by his friend George Lowden (the neck is made from a reclaimed mahogany church pew that George specifically chose for this gent since he would be using it in a church setting - wonderful legacy going on there). It is easily the nicest tone in a guitar I have heard to date and the morning I used the TLAH Pro with his guitar I couldn't help but smile at the reproduction of the instrument through the system. It was beautiful.
I especially love the last comment, re, the clarity. Granted, I do like the fact that the guitar neck is reclaimed wood...from a pew. :)

Thanks for the additional comments.
TomS

User avatar
Bill Fitzmaurice
Site Admin
Posts: 28619
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Mongrel TLAH Pro demo

#5 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

slavedave wrote: This is not the case with the TLAH Pro though. I can clearly recognise the source of the sound compared to the performers / speech.
That's called 'imaging', and that's what you usually want from a speaker. TLAH is intended for use in left/right pairs. When used with stereo effects good imaging is critical, otherwise the stereo image would be lost. Not that you can't use just one in venues small enough where one will do the job, but when used in pairs with stereo effects the sound stage is much wider. If God had meant for us to listen to mono He'd have given us only one ear. :)

slavedave
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:32 pm

Re: Mongrel TLAH Pro demo

#6 Post by slavedave »

Thanks again. If you want to see some of this luthiers work (and who play his guitars) go to his site :
http://www.georgelowden.com/page4/page30/artists.html

Having heard my friends acoustic the Martin, which up until then I loved the tone of, sounds bland (ok it cost a quarter of the price I guess).


And Bill, thank you for giving me the correct phrase. I understand that they should be used in pairs. In fact, the week after I built this one, the management company of the community centre where we meet approached me to review some quotes they had received for installing a permanent sound system. Serious amounts of money (between 4-7k) that, in my reading of the spec list, would be buying good quality components that would be totally unsuitable for the venue. I did suggest that I could build them a pair of TLAH (with the recommended drivers this time) but they could not do this because they needed a supplier who could give them a VAT receipt and provide the necessary insurance conditions for the warranty of the install. Can't compete with that so we shall see what it sounds like in a month or two. Some acoustic treatment is being applied over the Summer too so it may go some way to improving the situation. I suspect that our experience with the room over the last 5 years or so didn't count for too much with the "professional" company bods!

slavedave
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:32 pm

Re: Mongrel TLAH Pro demo

#7 Post by slavedave »

And God gave Captain Kirk three ears - the left ear, the right ear and the final frontier!

User avatar
Bill Fitzmaurice
Site Admin
Posts: 28619
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Mongrel TLAH Pro demo

#8 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

slavedave wrote: the management company of the community centre where we meet approached me to review some quotes they had received for installing a permanent sound system. Serious amounts of money (between 4-7k) that, in my reading of the spec list, would be buying good quality components that would be totally unsuitable for the venue. I did suggest that I could build them a pair of TLAH (with the recommended drivers this time) but they could not do this because they needed a supplier who could give them a VAT receipt and provide the necessary insurance conditions for the warranty of the install.
Places of this sort, churches especially, usually end up with poor installs at premium prices because the powers that be put their trust in 'professionals', ie, anyone with a business card, and ignore the advise of their members who are knowledgeable. :wall:

Post Reply