So i got suckered...

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djtrumptight
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:08 pm
Location: Detroit,Michigan

So i got suckered...

#1 Post by djtrumptight »

I got a call from a DJ,wanted to rent my T48's and DR250's,i say ok.He calls back and wants to know if i have a big mixer,i say yeah,i got a Mackie 1402,he wants to rent that too,i say ok.I get to the place,Berts Warehouse in Detroit,start unloading,as i'm setting up so is a band.Come to find out they have 3 bands that are gonna perform over the course of the evening.As i am setting up i'm seeing that this DJ doesn't know anything about live sound........and i dont either.But i have done some reading on this Forum about live sound so i put what i know to use.So,the first band had an older Bass player who had his own rig.I have read enough from Harley and others to know not to suggest to a bass player that he bypass his own rig and plug into my mixer :cop: i had 5 cordless mics (very cheap ones) and 1 corded mic.I designated the corded mic for lead vocals,i put a mic in front of the guitar players amp,one in front of the drummers bass drum,i wanted to put a mic up high on the drums near the snare and symbols but it was such an echo in the room that it carried ok since i had to turn the bass drum down to hear the bass player out in the crowd,his rig sounded terrible,like he needed to tighten the speakers down.I ran the keyboard through my Mackie mixer,T 48's V Plated in front of the stage,DR's to the sides of the stage,i tried to show the DR's but it was too dark in the video.The video is of the pre show set up,the DJ is the guy that rented from me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzKcoZAg ... ture=g-upl
Built:
2 Autotuba's MCM 55 2421
8 T48's 24"wide 3015 LF
2 DR 250's melded Deltalite II 2510
2 DR 250's flat Deltalite II 2510
2 SLA HT systems
1 Table Tuba Dayton DCS 255-4
2 T 39's 20" wide 3012 LF
1 T-18 13" wide MCM 55 2421
2 SLA Pro's

djtrumptight
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:08 pm
Location: Detroit,Michigan

Re: So i got suckered...

#2 Post by djtrumptight »

This is the last band to play,changes i made from the other band was just plugging the bass player into my mixer as opposed to the other Bass player who had his own rig.The Bass player was really feeling the Bass,even at the end when the DJ was telling them the show was over and they had to quit,the Bass player was still strumming lol.The only downfall was the feedback coming from the Lead Guitar players amp and not having a snake for FOH mixing so i had to keep jumping off the stage going out into the crowd to see what things sounded like then jump back onstage and make changes,my mixer is over near where the DJ is but other than that,this band was pretty good.Thanks to the members of this board for all the info i used to make it through the night.I could have set up and left as this was not my responsibility to engineer but i would have been wrong to leave that guy in that situation.He did pay me more than agreed since i stayed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA1D9I79 ... ure=relmfu
Built:
2 Autotuba's MCM 55 2421
8 T48's 24"wide 3015 LF
2 DR 250's melded Deltalite II 2510
2 DR 250's flat Deltalite II 2510
2 SLA HT systems
1 Table Tuba Dayton DCS 255-4
2 T 39's 20" wide 3012 LF
1 T-18 13" wide MCM 55 2421
2 SLA Pro's

Grant Bunter
Posts: 6915
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
Contact:

Re: So i got suckered...

#3 Post by Grant Bunter »

I give you 100 tickets of kudos for taking on something that was quite unfair to be thrown at you!
As you are now aware, live music and DJing are totally different beasts.
The guy(s) who wanted to hire you should have been much more honest. Tell them so.
After all, if it all went to shit they (all) would have blamed you.
And that goes against what you are striving to build in reputation...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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DJPhatman
Posts: 5412
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:08 am
Location: Warren, MI
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Re: So i got suckered...

#4 Post by DJPhatman »

Grant Bunter wrote:I give you 100 tickets of kudos for taking on something that was quite unfair to be thrown at you!
As you are now aware, live music and DJing are totally different beasts.
The guy(s) who wanted to hire you should have been much more honest. Tell them so.
After all, if it all went to shit they (all) would have blamed you.
And that goes against what you are striving to build in reputation...
+1,000,000

Well said, Grant! :clap:
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

djtrumptight
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:08 pm
Location: Detroit,Michigan

Re: So i got suckered...

#5 Post by djtrumptight »

Yeah,and to make matters worse,the day b4 the event they had me come down,hook up my system to do a "test" run for rappers and singers who rapped or sang along with their cd.The main reason i ended up staying was because i knew had i left it would have a disaster which would have fell on me.Thanks for the Kudo's,and i can never say enough,thanks for what i have learned from this board or else it would have been a disaster even with me there.
Built:
2 Autotuba's MCM 55 2421
8 T48's 24"wide 3015 LF
2 DR 250's melded Deltalite II 2510
2 DR 250's flat Deltalite II 2510
2 SLA HT systems
1 Table Tuba Dayton DCS 255-4
2 T 39's 20" wide 3012 LF
1 T-18 13" wide MCM 55 2421
2 SLA Pro's

Grant Bunter
Posts: 6915
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
Contact:

Re: So i got suckered...

#6 Post by Grant Bunter »

Two days of grief!

It's a good thing the guy offered you more money then...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Tom Smit
Posts: 7463
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: So i got suckered...

#7 Post by Tom Smit »

Kudos.
TomS

djtrumptight
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:08 pm
Location: Detroit,Michigan

Re: So i got suckered...

#8 Post by djtrumptight »

Thanks for the kudo's Tom.Now the only problem is i want to build 2 WH10's,maybe 3 or 4 WH6's a XF guitar cab,maybe a Jack for a bass rig and i want to buy a drum mic setup,but b4 i buy any of that i got alot of studying to do in order to know what i need to be doing but this would be a good investment for me.Are expensive drum mics worth the money or should i do it like i do with cordless mics ? I never buy expensive cordless mic's,especially for the things i do like comedy shows where comedians sometimes have a need to do all kinds of crazy things with your mic in order to tell their joke,rappers will abuse your mics,some people have this thing about "dropping" the mic.I get deposits on my cordless mic or they wont be used.
Built:
2 Autotuba's MCM 55 2421
8 T48's 24"wide 3015 LF
2 DR 250's melded Deltalite II 2510
2 DR 250's flat Deltalite II 2510
2 SLA HT systems
1 Table Tuba Dayton DCS 255-4
2 T 39's 20" wide 3012 LF
1 T-18 13" wide MCM 55 2421
2 SLA Pro's

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: So i got suckered...

#9 Post by CoronaOperator »

djtrumptight wrote:... especially for the things i do like comedy shows where comedians sometimes have a need to do all kinds of crazy things with your mic in order to tell their joke
Very odd. I've never come across a comedian who would even use a cordless mic. Something about the security blanket of having a cord to play with. I just give'em a sm58 and forget about any damages. They do sell replacement screens for them. I hear ya on the cordless mics though, that can get expensive.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

Grant Bunter
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
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Re: So i got suckered...

#10 Post by Grant Bunter »

djtrumptight wrote:Thanks for the kudo's Tom.Now the only problem is i want to build 2 WH10's,maybe 3 or 4 WH6's a XF guitar cab,maybe a Jack for a bass rig and i want to buy a drum mic setup,but b4 i buy any of that i got alot of studying to do in order to know what i need to be doing but this would be a good investment for me.


Good grief man lol. You've got your mains covered, so just go with your monitors/foldback for now. Most guitar players and bass players have their own preference for gear anyway, you don't need the added headache of arguing that you know the XF and Jack would sound better, more likely, than what they are presently using.
djtrumptight wrote:Are expensive drum mics worth the money or should i do it like i do with cordless mics ? I never buy expensive cordless mic's,especially for the things i do like comedy shows where comedians sometimes have a need to do all kinds of crazy things with your mic in order to tell their joke,rappers will abuse your mics,some people have this thing about "dropping" the mic.I get deposits on my cordless mic or they wont be used.
You shouldn't do drums with cordless mike IMO. I reckon the only thing you should use cordless mikes for is vocals, at a pinch. "Expensive" drum mikes are designed to take the high SPL produced, in particular, by bass drum and snare drum, and many are designed around acoustic drums EQ/response. Over the years Shure, AKG and Sennheiser have made some classic drum mikes and withstand the rigours of touring.
I'm in the same boat. I will have to buy drum mikes soon. Shure PG pack or PG/SM57 pack?? lol. That's what I'd prefer.
There are plenty of good reviews though about the more budget oriented Samson/NTS/Audix kits which should cover everything, so Bass drum, snare drum, tom drums (usually 3) and overheads. With drum rim mounts, because that saves you on microphone stands and space on stage.
You're other option may well be (I have considered this for myself) to buy a decent bass drum mike. Then a bunch of Shure SM57 clones (1 for snare, 1 for each tom, 1 per guitar cab) a few DI's (2 for keyboards, 1 or 2 for acoustic guitar etc) and you should be covered.

For the super cheapest option for drums, 1 bass drum mike and 2 condensors as overheads (down low from just behind and either side of the drummers back, aimed to pick up drums and cymbals and snare) can be doable unless it's a metal gig...

It's not just the mikes though... extra amps (1 channel per monitor send), extra EQ for each monitor send, extra mike cables, audio snake. And dealing with the "not so nice" bands...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Tom Smit
Posts: 7463
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: So i got suckered...

#11 Post by Tom Smit »

I'm rather hesitant about going the wireless route because I just read an article about the FOH? engineers (for Jann Arden) having a bunch of problems finding available frequencies in Winnepeg. :( This wouldn't be a problem with hard-wired.
TomS

LEVLHED
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:21 pm
Location: Plymouth, WI
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Re: So i got suckered...

#12 Post by LEVLHED »

yeah, I tend to not mess with wireless mics..they just aren't worth the hassle. Unless you are going to get the *really* good ones.
Stick with corded mics.
http://www.livingjukebox.com
9,000 watts and I'm not afraid to use them.

Chris Betancourt
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:44 pm
Location: Levittown Puerto Rico

Re: So i got suckered...

#13 Post by Chris Betancourt »

Up front have a good wireless mic not the cheap ones, I tried the line 6 wireless mic and they are really good and a little cheaper than the top of the line ones. Stay with one wireless for the moment and charge extra $$$ for it. I do alot of sound and those gigs that are asked for wireless are for the well known singers that are very picky with wired mics. I love audix mics on drums and percussion alot more on vocals. Shure Beta52 for kicks. Before doing a gig have a list of all the questions to ask before contract like DJ's, Bands and how many bands, indoor or outdoor, hours, how many peeps etc. Be always aware to those peaple 70% of all gigs have a suprise behind them.
Christopher Betancourt
Authorized Builder
Puerto Rico
Built:
4xTitan 39-3012LF, 2xWedgehorn 8, 4xOT12, 8xOT12J on the works.
All running w/SAC or DL1606
On the table:
too much work!! LOL
Future:
It's a secret for now. Shhhh....

djtrumptight
Posts: 823
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:08 pm
Location: Detroit,Michigan

Re: So i got suckered...

#14 Post by djtrumptight »

I could quote all the great responses but b4 i can do any of that i have alot of studying to do.I think i'm gonna go hang around places where i know bands and such will be performing and get there early and just watch and learn as much as i can.I wish their was an audio engineering institute somewhere in my area.Oh,there is !!! The BF Forum :D
Built:
2 Autotuba's MCM 55 2421
8 T48's 24"wide 3015 LF
2 DR 250's melded Deltalite II 2510
2 DR 250's flat Deltalite II 2510
2 SLA HT systems
1 Table Tuba Dayton DCS 255-4
2 T 39's 20" wide 3012 LF
1 T-18 13" wide MCM 55 2421
2 SLA Pro's

User avatar
Tom Smit
Posts: 7463
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: So i got suckered...

#15 Post by Tom Smit »

Hurry! Rush! For $80 you can go to a short seminar put on Dave Rat ho is FOH forBlink182, Soundgarden and RHCP on Friday, June 1 right in Detroit!

http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... on#p185992
TomS

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