Titan 39 Build

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Grant Bunter
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Re: Titan 39 Build

#226 Post by Grant Bunter »

Bryan,
Great write up, but something's still a little funky there.

Based on the SPL charts, for 60Hz, 4 x 3012lf loaded 20" wide T39 cabs should be measuring in the order of 114.5dB 1W/1m.
52V isn't quite the 56V that means you can add +26dB for max output, but it's pretty close, so you should expect in the order of 140dB at max.
You are pretty much getting the +3dB you'd expect from the V plate, and +6dB from wall loading, so, all up, with V plate, war volume and wall loading, you should expect a reading of 149dB.

You'll get chest thump when your level is 110dB and greater...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Bryan Cox
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Owensville, Mo

Re: Titan 39 Build

#227 Post by Bryan Cox »

Grant Bunter wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:35 pm Bryan,
Great write up, but something's still a little funky there.

Based on the SPL charts, for 60Hz, 4 x 3012lf loaded 20" wide T39 cabs should be measuring in the order of 114.5dB 1W/1m.
52V isn't quite the 56V that means you can add +26dB for max output, but it's pretty close, so you should expect in the order of 140dB at max.
You are pretty much getting the +3dB you'd expect from the V plate, and +6dB from wall loading, so, all up, with V plate, war volume and wall loading, you should expect a reading of 149dB.

You'll get chest thump when your level is 110dB and greater...
Haha, funky is right. I tried to be as scientific as I possibly could but truth be told, I couldn't get close enough to the subs at war volume. So the levels I got were from a ways back.

If I ever get the opportunity to do this the correct way l be sure to have hearing protection.
Otop 12 x 4 (Delta Pro 12-450a) 2x melded, 2x straight
Titan 39 x 4 (3012LF) 20" wide

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Seth
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Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Re: Titan 39 Build

#228 Post by Seth »

Bryan Cox wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:53 pm I thought it couldn't get better...I was wrong. Seth, I didn't have the space to do two separate stacks but I did do a stack of four in these configurations: no v plate, with v plate, wall loaded with v plate. Also Seth, you were right about the LR crossover. I had it set at 48 dB slope and it cut out pretty significant content which also lowered my max voltage to 29.9 VAC. I followed your advice and did my test tone at 60 Hz and got 36 VAC. Then I set my crossover to 47 Hz with a LR24 slope. When I tested again, on the bleeding edge of total meltdown, I got 52 VAC. I set the limiters at 50 volts but never hit it. And to be honest, I couldn't imagine needing anything louder unless I'm outside or the room is just super packed and huge.

My test building is 73' x 135' and I was set up on a shorter wall. So here's the data....

All at 52 VAC with a 60 Hz test tone @ 1 meter:
No V Plate or wall: 121.6 dB
With V Plate: 124.9 dB
V Plate and Wall: 128.1 dB

When I played music content the lows just totally kicked me in the chest. But I will say that the Otop 12s outran the T39s at only 60% power.

With the whole system going, faders at unity gain, mains amp at 60%, and subs amp wide open, some songs hit up to 135 dB on their crescendo. This was at about 35' away...close, I know. But I didn't have the ability to get that far away on-center.

I also noticed I had to bump down 100 Hz by 1 or 2 dB (depending on the time) when it was V Plated and wall loaded. But the absolute clarity and power was astounding. It was so powerful that I could only stand it up to about 75% then I had to put ear plugs in.

Needless to say, impressed doesn't do it justice. I will however, build 4 more T39s to try and keep up with the Otops.
Bryan, what a great review and accounting of performance! :metal:

Paraphrasing here, but... "more than I need, I'm gonna build more" sounds like you've got the illness pretty good this time. :thumbsup:
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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Tom Smit
Posts: 7457
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: Titan 39 Build

#229 Post by Tom Smit »

SethRocksYou wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:58 pm
Bryan Cox wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:53 pm I thought it couldn't get better...I was wrong. Seth, I didn't have the space to do two separate stacks but I did do a stack of four in these configurations: no v plate, with v plate, wall loaded with v plate. Also Seth, you were right about the LR crossover. I had it set at 48 dB slope and it cut out pretty significant content which also lowered my max voltage to 29.9 VAC. I followed your advice and did my test tone at 60 Hz and got 36 VAC. Then I set my crossover to 47 Hz with a LR24 slope. When I tested again, on the bleeding edge of total meltdown, I got 52 VAC. I set the limiters at 50 volts but never hit it. And to be honest, I couldn't imagine needing anything louder unless I'm outside or the room is just super packed and huge.

My test building is 73' x 135' and I was set up on a shorter wall. So here's the data....

All at 52 VAC with a 60 Hz test tone @ 1 meter:
No V Plate or wall: 121.6 dB
With V Plate: 124.9 dB
V Plate and Wall: 128.1 dB

When I played music content the lows just totally kicked me in the chest. But I will say that the Otop 12s outran the T39s at only 60% power.

With the whole system going, faders at unity gain, mains amp at 60%, and subs amp wide open, some songs hit up to 135 dB on their crescendo. This was at about 35' away...close, I know. But I didn't have the ability to get that far away on-center.

I also noticed I had to bump down 100 Hz by 1 or 2 dB (depending on the time) when it was V Plated and wall loaded. But the absolute clarity and power was astounding. It was so powerful that I could only stand it up to about 75% then I had to put ear plugs in.

Needless to say, impressed doesn't do it justice. I will however, build 4 more T39s to try and keep up with the Otops.
SethRocksYou wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:58 pmBryan, what a great review and accounting of performance! :metal:
+1
SethRocksYou wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:58 pm Paraphrasing here, but... "more than I need, I'm gonna build more" sounds like you've got the illness pretty good this time. :thumbsup:
:loler: :clap:
TomS

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Bryan Cox
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Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Owensville, Mo

Re: Titan 39 Build

#230 Post by Bryan Cox »

SethRocksYou wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:58 pm
Bryan, what a great review and accounting of performance! :metal:

Paraphrasing here, but... "more than I need, I'm gonna build more" sounds like you've got the illness pretty good this time. :thumbsup:
You're not wrong, Seth. Had it for a few years I guess. I just tend to keep it to myself since I'm in no position to use these for awhile. The military has taught me patience but this sweet system is testing it, hard.

I read somewhere that I'd need to double the subs to keep up with the tops. I never questioned the validity of that. But I didn't imagine I'd want or need more subs. Truth be told, I want to be able to run the Otops at full potential with plenty of bottom end. I don't know how far down the rabbit hole that want will take me. But we will find out someday.
Otop 12 x 4 (Delta Pro 12-450a) 2x melded, 2x straight
Titan 39 x 4 (3012LF) 20" wide

Grant Bunter
Posts: 6915
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
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Re: Titan 39 Build

#231 Post by Grant Bunter »

Bryan Cox wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:35 am I read somewhere that I'd need to double the subs to keep up with the tops. I never questioned the validity of that. But I didn't imagine I'd want or need more subs. Truth be told, I want to be able to run the Otops at full potential with plenty of bottom end. I don't know how far down the rabbit hole that want will take me. But we will find out someday.
Uh huh.
You need to work out your deficit in terms of sub output.
Because adding another 4 more cabs from this stage will add 6dB.

Perhaps your next build may be wider, if pack space allows, that will net you more output too.

I'll get back to you about measuring the easier way...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Bryan Cox
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Owensville, Mo

Re: Titan 39 Build

#232 Post by Bryan Cox »

Grant Bunter wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:45 am
Bryan Cox wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:35 am I read somewhere that I'd need to double the subs to keep up with the tops. I never questioned the validity of that. But I didn't imagine I'd want or need more subs. Truth be told, I want to be able to run the Otops at full potential with plenty of bottom end. I don't know how far down the rabbit hole that want will take me. But we will find out someday.
Uh huh.
You need to work out your deficit in terms of sub output.
Because adding another 4 more cabs from this stage will add 6dB.

Perhaps your next build may be wider, if pack space allows, that will net you more output too.

I'll get back to you about measuring the easier way...
Thanks Grant. I look forward to learning. As far as pack space is concerned, by the time I build more cabs I'll have purchased a trailer so it shouldn't be an issue. Ensure whatever trailer I buy has at least 30% more space than I need for growth.
Otop 12 x 4 (Delta Pro 12-450a) 2x melded, 2x straight
Titan 39 x 4 (3012LF) 20" wide

Grant Bunter
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
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Re: Titan 39 Build

#233 Post by Grant Bunter »

Measuring:
You don't need to be close, you just need to know how far away from the cabs mouth you are.

SPL drops off at 6dB for every doubling of distance. eg 2 = -6,4 = -12,8= -18, 16= -24, 32= -30 etc metres/yards. Metres is better, yards is ok.
So, if your reading at 32m is 110dB, then at 1m it's 140dB...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Bryan Cox
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Owensville, Mo

Re: Titan 39 Build

#234 Post by Bryan Cox »

Grant Bunter wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:11 pm Measuring:
You don't need to be close, you just need to know how far away from the cabs mouth you are.

SPL drops off at 6dB for every doubling of distance. eg 2 = -6,4 = -12,8= -18, 16= -24, 32= -30 etc metres/yards. Metres is better, yards is ok.
So, if your reading at 32m is 110dB, then at 1m it's 140dB...
Thanks for that info, Grant. If the weather here in North Dakota gives us a miracle I may be able to test outside before I deploy. If not, it'll have to wait until I come back.
Otop 12 x 4 (Delta Pro 12-450a) 2x melded, 2x straight
Titan 39 x 4 (3012LF) 20" wide

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Seth
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Re: Titan 39 Build

#235 Post by Seth »

Bryan Cox wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:35 am
SethRocksYou wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:58 pm
Bryan, what a great review and accounting of performance! :metal:

Paraphrasing here, but... "more than I need, I'm gonna build more" sounds like you've got the illness pretty good this time. :thumbsup:
You're not wrong, Seth. Had it for a few years I guess. I just tend to keep it to myself since I'm in no position to use these for awhile. The military has taught me patience but this sweet system is testing it, hard.

I read somewhere that I'd need to double the subs to keep up with the tops. I never questioned the validity of that. But I didn't imagine I'd want or need more subs. Truth be told, I want to be able to run the Otops at full potential with plenty of bottom end. I don't know how far down the rabbit hole that want will take me. But we will find out someday.
Are the O-tops able to take everything your amp can put out (without clipping) and still remain clean and non distorted? Just wondering how much more bottom you would need. What's your feeling, having been in front of the whole ensemble?
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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Bryan Cox
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Owensville, Mo

Re: Titan 39 Build

#236 Post by Bryan Cox »

SethRocksYou wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:30 pm
Bryan Cox wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:35 am
SethRocksYou wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:58 pm
Bryan, what a great review and accounting of performance! :metal:

Paraphrasing here, but... "more than I need, I'm gonna build more" sounds like you've got the illness pretty good this time. :thumbsup:
You're not wrong, Seth. Had it for a few years I guess. I just tend to keep it to myself since I'm in no position to use these for awhile. The military has taught me patience but this sweet system is testing it, hard.

I read somewhere that I'd need to double the subs to keep up with the tops. I never questioned the validity of that. But I didn't imagine I'd want or need more subs. Truth be told, I want to be able to run the Otops at full potential with plenty of bottom end. I don't know how far down the rabbit hole that want will take me. But we will find out someday.
Are the O-tops able to take everything your amp can put out (without clipping) and still remain clean and non distorted? Just wondering how much more bottom you would need. What's your feeling, having been in front of the whole ensemble?
I didn't test the mains amp for voltage but if I had to estimate, i'd say they were getting around 20-25 VAC (liberally speaking). The mains amp was at about 12:30 on the dial when the subs amp was dimed. I could've given them a bit more and been fine I just like a good kick thump to jump out. I believe if I doubled my T39 cab count I'd could come close to running them wide open. Although I doubt I NEED to do that. I just want to have more than I need when the situation arises. If nothing else, it's fun!!!
Otop 12 x 4 (Delta Pro 12-450a) 2x melded, 2x straight
Titan 39 x 4 (3012LF) 20" wide

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Bryan Cox
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Owensville, Mo

Re: Titan 39 Build

#237 Post by Bryan Cox »

To put a pretty bow on everything, I did the finish work on the V plates this weekend. They look pretty wicked.

Bruce, I did not want to put holes in my subs but the grills made your method impossible for me. Instead, I used 1/4-20 EZ-Lok threaded inserts and they look good. Then I got some 1/4-20 hand knobs on Amazon and voila!

Rounded off the edges and applied Duratex yesterday. Did a final fitment today and couldn't be happier with the form/fit/function.

Finally, I used that rubber seal material Bruce suggested from Home Depot. Worked like a charm and I see no issues with it sticking to the Duratex. Thank you for that.

This should bring the T39 project to a close for now. And here I was thinking I'd keep myself busy pretty much until I left for Turkey but this stupid virus has the DoD pushing back all travel for at least 60 days, maybe more. Now to find something else to occupy myself with until then......
Attachments
20200315_183836.jpg
20200315_183744.jpg
20200315_183750.jpg
Otop 12 x 4 (Delta Pro 12-450a) 2x melded, 2x straight
Titan 39 x 4 (3012LF) 20" wide

Bruce Weldy
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Titan 39 Build

#238 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Very nice! Great job.

Good luck on your deployment.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Bryan Cox
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Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:01 pm
Location: Owensville, Mo

Re: Titan 39 Build

#239 Post by Bryan Cox »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:02 pm Very nice! Great job.

Good luck on your deployment.
Thanks, Bruce! One last hoorah before I retire. Should be a cake walk. Haha
Otop 12 x 4 (Delta Pro 12-450a) 2x melded, 2x straight
Titan 39 x 4 (3012LF) 20" wide

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Tom Smit
Posts: 7457
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: Titan 39 Build

#240 Post by Tom Smit »

Looks good. You fiiiiinally got it all built, haha.
TomS

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