First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions UPDATE: Titan 39

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Grant Bunter
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
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Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions

#16 Post by Grant Bunter »

So, you changed 500, 3150, 4000, 5000 and 12500 to -10dB?
If yes, cool.
Personally I would also change 2500Hz to -2dB, but each to their own.

The most important thing about doing what you have done with the new target curve and auto EQing is they now sound better than they did before.
Is that the case?

How far away from the cab was your reference mike?

One more thing. There's probably no worse source in the world than music from youtube. Youtube songs are compressed when they are uploaded. If a given song was compressed at mix down anyway, it's now been compressed again, taking all the dynamics out of the song.

Do some research about the best sound quality for playback, but even .wav files are better than .mp3 ...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Sebastjan Pope
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:17 pm
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions

#17 Post by Sebastjan Pope »

Grant Bunter wrote:So, you changed 500, 3150, 4000, 5000 and 12500 to -10dB?
If yes, cool.
Yes I did it like that.
And you say that I shouldnt do any AutoEQ indoors/room equalization?

The microphone was about 8 meters from speaker on stand when I was doing the Auto EQ.
The cab sounds really nice and clear now(tested with listening music indoors). This target curve really made a difference.


But in some of the music/songs(listening indoors) I miss some low bass(more kick). Bill says I shouldnt boost between 40Hz and 80Hz.

I was looking at plans of Titan39 to build 1 cabinet. It is quite big thing even If I build it just 20" wide.
Is this the right driver BP102(4ohms) for my setup/amp?: https://www.thomann.de/intl/si/eminence ... bp1024.htm
Because there is also 8ohms version and I really dont get the impendence load thing...
Is my amp capable of driving 2x Titan39(BP102) on one channel?

If I add one sub do I need to change the wiring of Jack112? Now they are wired as shown in plans for use as "PA fullrange without sub"?
I will probably buy Behringer DCX2496 as suggested If I decide to make sub.

Grant Bunter
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Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions

#18 Post by Grant Bunter »

Sebastjan Pope wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:45 pm
Grant Bunter wrote:So, you changed 500, 3150, 4000, 5000 and 12500 to -10dB?
If yes, cool.
Yes I did it like that.
And you say that I shouldnt do any AutoEQ indoors/room equalization?

Just make sure you've saved the outdoor result!
Sure, you can use them indoors and auto EQ them, but you might find you don't like the result, so may have to adjust that.
The reason is, auto EQ is measuring the room, and the room is reflective.
You could put the cabs in a different spot, and get a different result.
It may take a lot of messing around to get it sounding right.


The microphone was about 8 meters from speaker on stand when I was doing the Auto EQ.
The cab sounds really nice and clear now(tested with listening music indoors). This target curve really made a difference.

:clap:


But in some of the music/songs(listening indoors) I miss some low bass(more kick). Bill says I shouldnt boost between 40Hz and 80Hz.

I was looking at plans of Titan39 to build 1 cabinet. It is quite big thing even If I build it just 20" wide.

Yes, it is. Nearly a metre tall, but they are great :)

Is this the right driver BP102(4ohms) for my setup/amp?: https://www.thomann.de/intl/si/eminence ... bp1024.htm
Because there is also 8ohms version and I really dont get the impendence load thing...

You want the 8 ohm version
Is my amp capable of driving 2x Titan39(BP102) on one channel?
Yes, if you use the 8 ohm BP102 in each cab, and daisy chain the cabs

If I add one sub do I need to change the wiring of Jack112? Now they are wired as shown in plans for use as "PA fullrange without sub"?
I will probably buy Behringer DCX2496 as suggested If I decide to make sub.

If you build subs (eg T39) you must get the DCX2496. This lets you set the crossover for the subs and the J12's, and limit the subs, and stuff lol.
We can help with setting that up.
When you use a DCX2496, you don't need to alter the wiring in the J12's..
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Sebastjan Pope
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:17 pm
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions

#19 Post by Sebastjan Pope »

Grant Bunter wrote:Yes, if you use the 8 ohm BP102 in each cab, and daisy chain the cabs
What kind of cable do I need to connect Titan39 to Amp(4 conductor cable?)? and If I want to daisy chain the second Titan39 what cable should I use?
I know that this is writen in plans but I have hard time to understand. :confused:
Thanks for help!

Grant Bunter
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
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Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions

#20 Post by Grant Bunter »

Sebastjan Pope wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:06 pm
Grant Bunter wrote:Yes, if you use the 8 ohm BP102 in each cab, and daisy chain the cabs
What kind of cable do I need to connect Titan39 to Amp(4 conductor cable?)? and If I want to daisy chain the second Titan39 what cable should I use?
I know that this is writen in plans but I have hard time to understand. :confused:
Thanks for help!
Use 2 conductor cable into NL4's, using +1 and -1 only.
Use one of these cables to connect the amplifier to cab 1, and another to go from cab 1 to cab 2.
I only use 2.5mm squared cable for my speaker cables.
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Tom Smit
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions

#21 Post by Tom Smit »

Grant Bunter wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:23 pmI only use 2.5mm squared cable for my speaker cables.
That is equal to 13 gauge in North America. I am presuming that Grant would prefer to use 12 gauge if he was in NA.
TomS

Grant Bunter
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Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions

#22 Post by Grant Bunter »

Tom Smit wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:26 am
Grant Bunter wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:23 pmI only use 2.5mm squared cable for my speaker cables.
That is equal to 13 gauge in North America. I am presuming that Grant would prefer to use 12 gauge if he was in NA.
True Tom.
That's what I use for all my speaker cables, maximum length of 15 metres.
I'll split amplifiers and use longer signal leads rather than lengthen my speaker cable runs.
The OP is in Slovenia, and should be able to find 2.5mm squared speaker cable :)
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Tom Smit
Posts: 7457
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions

#23 Post by Tom Smit »

Grant, I didn't remember that the OP was in Slovenia; t's a good thing you did. Oh well, least newbies/lurkers might find this info helpful.
TomS

Sebastjan Pope
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:17 pm
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions

#24 Post by Sebastjan Pope »

UPDATE:

Hello all,

Already in 2020 I have finished my build of 1x Titan 39, 20" wide, with Eminence Legend BP 102-8 - 200W/8ohm, to go with my 2x Jack 12
I must say it was a FUN build, as far as I remember :lol:

But since than I havent really used it properly, and didnt even setup it as it needs to be :wall:

Now I would like to setup crossovers and limiters... and then I hope they get some party time :fingers:

I got a bit rusty in this field, but I hope to get around it again :idea:

System info:
2x Jack 12 (Eminence Beta-12A-2, 12" speaker, 250watts/8ohm (RMS) with Monacor MPT 016 piezos)
1x Titan 39 (Eminence Legend BP 102-8 - 200W/8ohm)
the t.mix xmix 802 USB, 8 channel mixer
Behringer DCX2496 Ultradrive Pro
Behringer DEQ2496 Ultra Curve Pro
the t.amp E-800 stereo amplifier - output power: 2x 500W into 4 Ohms, 2x 350W into 8 ohms
and bunch of cables, microphone, Gator case...

Now I go and study "How to set up a DCX 2496" viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20833
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howiez
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:23 pm
Location: Fox Valley, Wisconsin

Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions UPDATE: Titan 39

#25 Post by howiez »

Looks beautiful! I"ll leave setup questions to the veterans here, i'm clueless myself...

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Tom Smit
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions UPDATE: Titan 39

#26 Post by Tom Smit »

Good job on building your cabs.
In your BFM plan of the T39, there are details on where to set the limiter and hi pass for each suggested driver, at the bottom two pages. In your case, 35 volt limit, and hi pass of 45hz.
TomS

Sebastjan Pope
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:17 pm
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions UPDATE: Titan 39

#27 Post by Sebastjan Pope »

Hi,

I have managed to setup Limiter for Titan 39 sub at 35V
I would like to also limit tops 2x Jack 12 (Eminence Beta-12A-2, 12" speaker, 250watts/8ohm (RMS) with Monacor MPT 016 piezos).
What is the voltage limit for them if I daisy chain two of them?
Thanks

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions UPDATE: Titan 39

#28 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Tops are limited to the voltage required to reach the thermal power limit, as displacement isn't a consideration. https://ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator

Sebastjan Pope
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:17 pm
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions UPDATE: Titan 39

#29 Post by Sebastjan Pope »

Hi all,

After some time I have a chance to run my system at some outdoor picnic/party, mostly playing electro music. I havent really took time to setup DCX correctly as I only played some youtube music in my garage, where I didnt need any power for the system.

Yesterday I tried to setup the DCX as in Grant Bunter tread: https://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/post ... ly&t=25148

I did it in MONO, to have less things to worry...

2x Jack12 are daisy chained.

Channel 1 is SUB:
HIGHPASS cutoff is set to 45Hz
HIGHPASS filter type I choose BUT48 and all other filter type are also BUT48
LOWPASS freq is set to 90Hz
Limiter is set to - 24db (max possible) this way I get about 34V (sine wave 60Hz) on output Channel 1 from amp If I max out everything

Channel 2 in Mid-High:
Filter type is same BUT48
HIGHPASS is set to 90Hz
LOWPASS freq is 20kHz
Limiter is also set to - 24db, I think It gets about 22V with same sine wave 60Hz on amp output (but this is probably wrong test). If I put values in ohmslawcalculator I get 31V. I put 250W and 4ohm as start values, but dont know if this is correct and what to do with 31V value?

I am not sure if this setup is OK. Probably 2x Jack12 are more powerful than 1xT39. Maybe I will need to balance that, the easiest I see is on the AMP power buttons.
Is there any sense to HIGHPASS Jack12 at lower freq (mybe 60Hz?!?), to get some more low end out of them?
The Jack12 cabs are EQ with the DEQ unit, I didnt EQ the Titan 39. Is it neccesary?

Thanks for any input!

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: First Build 2x Jack 112 pics and questions UPDATE: Titan 39

#30 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Sebastjan Pope wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:49 am Probably 2x Jack12 are more powerful than 1xT39.
The absolutely are. For equal output indoors the subs to tops ratio should be 1:1. Outdoors it's 2:1, as there are no boundaries outdoors to reinforce the sub.
Is there any sense to HIGHPASS Jack12 at lower freq (mybe 60Hz?!?)
Bad idea. For that matter when using Jack 12 with subs they should be high passed at 100 to 125Hz, allowing the subs to do all the heavy lifting, but you must have enough subs.

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