6 Tuba 45s

Post your build odyssey here.
Message
Author
User avatar
J_Dunavin
Posts: 1260
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:13 pm
Location: Appleton WI
Contact:

Re: 6 Tuba 45s

#76 Post by J_Dunavin »

Good info thanks guys!
In figuring SPL requirements, is there a way to adjust the SPL charts for power? I mean, what does the T45 chart look like at 40v for example?
2 - OTop8
2 - T39
8 - DR200
2 - DR250
9 - T24
6 - T45
1 - Auto Tuba

User avatar
Bill Fitzmaurice
Site Admin
Posts: 28619
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: 6 Tuba 45s

#77 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Every doubling of voltage gives 6dB. We don't talk watts here. :cop:

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: 6 Tuba 45s

#78 Post by CoronaOperator »

J_Dunavin wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:25 am Good info thanks guys!
In figuring SPL requirements, is there a way to adjust the SPL charts for power? I mean, what does the T45 chart look like at 40v for example?
Add 3-4 dB's to seths chart and you should be close for 6 T45's outside. Who is doing the mixing? The use of compression on the kick drum and how loud they want it will be key to whether or not you have enough rig down low.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

User avatar
Seth
Posts: 2731
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Contact:

Re: 6 Tuba 45s

#79 Post by Seth »

J_Dunavin wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:25 am I mean, what does the T45 chart look like at 40v for example?
To me, it looks like the T45 is about 92dB at 2.83v, at 40hz. Personally, I calculate from the least sensitive portion of the usable bandpass, rather than the average.

Doubling the cab count to 2, add 6dB (98dB). Doubling it again to 4 cabs, add another 6dB (104dB). Doubling it again (adding 4 more cabs) would be another 6, but we're only adding 2. I'm not sure if it's technically correct, but I personally split the difference and add 3dB (107dB)

So, now we have 107dB @ 1 meter @ 2.83v, for all 6 cabinets.

Using what Bill stated above:
107dB @ 2.83v
113dB @ 5.66v
119dB @ 11.32v
125dB @ 22.64v
131dB @ 45.28

And that's at 40hz.

Another easy to remember figure that I picked up somewhere around here is, after you adjust for the cab count, add 20dB for 100watts and 30dB for 1000 watts total power. And any doubling of watts is 3dB. So 200 watts would be +23dB and 2000 watts would be +33dB.
Last edited by Seth on Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

User avatar
J_Dunavin
Posts: 1260
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:13 pm
Location: Appleton WI
Contact:

Re: 6 Tuba 45s

#80 Post by J_Dunavin »

Thanks for the help!
After talking with our local Parks / Rec people, I believe that I would have enough mains to cover what I need. Now the questions bend toward other gear I may need, mixing board, audio snake, mics, DI boxes, etc, etc.
Maybe I should just stick with the DJing :noob:

OH previous questions about recessed handles in interfering with the drive chamber.
Physically they would clear, but would the mess with the internal volume too much?
Bill?
2 - OTop8
2 - T39
8 - DR200
2 - DR250
9 - T24
6 - T45
1 - Auto Tuba

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: 6 Tuba 45s

#81 Post by Bruce Weldy »

J_Dunavin wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:32 pm Thanks for the help!
After talking with our local Parks / Rec people, I believe that I would have enough mains to cover what I need. Now the questions bend toward other gear I may need, mixing board, audio snake, mics, DI boxes, etc, etc.
Maybe I should just stick with the DJing :noob:

OH previous questions about recessed handles in interfering with the drive chamber.
Physically they would clear, but would the mess with the internal volume too much?
Bill?
Those other things will add up very quickly.......cabling alone will be a few hundred dollars (and don't buy the cheap crap). Figure a hundred bucks per mic (some new and used), etc......etc.....

You need to have a lot of shows in the future to just break even for the expense of the added gear......and if you don't have much experience mixing, it could way more headache than you imagine....

Not trying to dissuade you, but go in with your eyes wide open....

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

User avatar
J_Dunavin
Posts: 1260
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:13 pm
Location: Appleton WI
Contact:

Re: 6 Tuba 45s

#82 Post by J_Dunavin »

Ya... I’ve helped with smaller venue stuff, so I have an idea of what it may take, but like you said, unless I’ve got a bunch of gigs lined up... I dunno, just looking into it for now.
2 - OTop8
2 - T39
8 - DR200
2 - DR250
9 - T24
6 - T45
1 - Auto Tuba

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

#83 Post by CoronaOperator »

You need a lot of gear to get into live sound:

Power: Upstage and down stage stringers, a few 25'-50' quad boxes, power distro
Monitors: 1 for each band member (~4 for a typical small band)
Vocal mics and stands: 1 for each member that sings (~4 to get started)
Instrument mics: Drum kit (~4 sm57's with clips and a B52 to get started, overhead mics for cymbals - optional), 3 more sm57's on hand for everything else
Instrument mic stands: ~3 short, 3-4 tall
Mixing board: Go digital-no snakes and all the eq's/compressors/fx you need, something like a UI24r will do anything you want, notebook or tablet to mix, external wifi router for board
DI boxes: 2 to start
XLR cables: about 30- twenty-five footers to get started,a couple 1/4" cables too, throw in a couple RCA's and a 1/8" aux cord as well
USB stick with break music
Outdoors - tarps, table to place FOH gear, maybe a pop up tent for FOH
Someone to show you the ropes and guide you - very important

However many bands already have all this stuff
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: 6 Tuba 45s

#84 Post by CoronaOperator »

Oh ya and if you play into the evening you need stage lights, both front and rear
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: 6 Tuba 45s

#85 Post by CoronaOperator »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:58 pm .....and if you don't have much experience mixing, it could way more headache than you imagine....

Not trying to dissuade you, but go in with your eyes wide open....
Oh, it will be more of a headache than you imagine at first. The first time behind a mixing board you will understand the meaning of biting off more than you can chew. But don't worry - all the bands friends/wives/girlfriends will tell you what you are doing wrong ! :lol: :lol:
I don't think there is any other way to get into live sound, it's just something you have to go through.
It's worth it though, lots of fun once you get the hang of it, just a big learning curve at first.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: 6 Tuba 45s

#86 Post by Bruce Weldy »

CoronaOperator wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:13 pm
Bruce Weldy wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:58 pm .....and if you don't have much experience mixing, it could way more headache than you imagine....

Not trying to dissuade you, but go in with your eyes wide open....
Oh, it will be more of a headache than you imagine at first. The first time behind a mixing board you will understand the meaning of biting off more than you can chew. But don't worry - all the bands friends/wives/girlfriends will tell you what you are doing wrong ! :lol: :lol:
I don't think there is any other way to get into live sound, it's just something you have to go through.
It's worth it though, lots of fun once you get the hang of it, just a big learning curve at first.
If you want to wade in instead of jumping in......find a local band that needs a better PA than they have. Offer to take yours and let you run sound on their gear (everything except stacks and racks) - no investment on your part and you can get your feet wet on EQ, etc......

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re:

#87 Post by Bruce Weldy »

CoronaOperator wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:03 pm You need a lot of gear to get into live sound:

Power: Upstage and down stage stringers, a few 25'-50' quad boxes, power distro
Monitors: 1 for each band member (~4 for a typical small band)
Vocal mics and stands: 1 for each member that sings (~4 to get started)
Instrument mics: Drum kit (~4 sm57's with clips and a B52 to get started, overhead mics for cymbals - optional), 3 more sm57's on hand for everything else
Instrument mic stands: ~3 short, 3-4 tall
Mixing board: Go digital-no snakes and all the eq's/compressors/fx you need, something like a UI24r will do anything you want, notebook or tablet to mix, external wifi router for board
DI boxes: 2 to start
XLR cables: about 30- twenty-five footers to get started,a couple 1/4" cables too, throw in a couple RCA's and a 1/8" aux cord as well
USB stick with break music
Outdoors - tarps, table to place FOH gear, maybe a pop up tent for FOH
Someone to show you the ropes and guide you - very important

However many bands already have all this stuff
Yep. My differences would be the use of 57s.....I have a case full of 'em and haven't had one out but once in the last year. Sennheiser 609s on amps (no stands) and Sennheiser 604s on Toms and Snare (again, no stands or claws).

If you can, build your own mic cables. Buy a 500 foot roll of Rapco-Horizon mic cable and Neutrik connectors. Build several in 10, 15, 20, 25, 35ft lengths......along with a couple of 50 footers....
These will be better cables than you can buy and they will be cheaper than the higher end stuff by far.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

User avatar
J_Dunavin
Posts: 1260
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:13 pm
Location: Appleton WI
Contact:

Re: 6 Tuba 45s

#88 Post by J_Dunavin »

Bruce, great suggestion on finding a band that needs a better system, or needs help running sound, to get my feet wet. That sounds much more realistic than buying a bunch of gear that may sit around.
2 - OTop8
2 - T39
8 - DR200
2 - DR250
9 - T24
6 - T45
1 - Auto Tuba

User avatar
Seth
Posts: 2731
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Contact:

Re: 6 Tuba 45s

#89 Post by Seth »

Preface... I don't (yet) do sound for money.

I've had very good results with Behringers XR18 Digital Mixer. Enough inputs and outputs for smaller gigs, tons of signal processing built in (gates, compressors, and EQ on every input), a fair amount of quality FX, and a super low price. It's all housed in a stage box which keeps cabling to a minimum and completely eliminates the need for a snake. It uses an iPad, Android Tablet/phone, or PC as a control surface through the built in (or external) wifi network. I personally use PC and have a tablet handy as backup. My opinion is, it's a great place to start.

I've since upgraded to a Midas M32C and S32 stagebox. Honestly, in comparison, the XR18 isn't really short of anything but some inputs, outputs, and additional FX processing. Functionality and sound quality is all there in both options.

Also, I have no issue using non- Shure, Sennheiser, etc. microphones. Especially just getting a rig together and off the ground. $40 will get you 3 Behringer mic's on Amazon, 800+ reviews averaging 4.5 stars. Nothing wrong with upgrading as the business grows... Or not upgrading and still having the essentials to cover the random live gig.

Just my two cents.
Last edited by Seth on Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

User avatar
Seth
Posts: 2731
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Contact:

Re: 6 Tuba 45s

#90 Post by Seth »

J_Dunavin wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:13 pm Bruce, great suggestion on finding a band that needs a better system, or needs help running sound, to get my feet wet. That sounds much more realistic than buying a bunch of gear that may sit around.
I'm considering the same. :thumbsup:
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Post Reply