Simplexx 110 Build

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Das Jugghead
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#166 Post by Das Jugghead »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:16 pm Sad to hear that. I don't know how they're rating amps these days, but it's not like they used to. I never found a 100 watt Fender Showman wanting, and my first SS amp, a 130w Peavey, was always plenty. I'd still be using a Hartke 3500 if it wasn't so heavy to lug about. My current Ashdown Superfly is Class D, only rated 160w/8 ohms, but it's adequate through my Jack 12.
I had read that the settings on the Hartke TX600 are not intuitive so I spent the past hour fiddling with them. While still not putting out anything that could be construed as an honest 600 watts I did get it to overdrive the speakers on the B string before topping out the master volume knob. I do like the sound that I am getting in terms of tone (aside from the farting on the B String) - the volume just lacks severely. Here is a picture of the settings currently:
IMG_7898.jpg
I have also discovered that plugging my Zoom B3n effects pedal into the guitar input of the Hartke makes it VERY much louder. One thing I noticed with the pedal plugged in is that the tone became boomier or muddier - not really sure of a better way to describe it. So I think I will keep it over the weekend and fiddle with it more. Also the low B string farts out horribly which I think is from the speakers not being powerful enough.

Bill I wanted to revisit a comment you made regarding the Kappa Pro-10LF 600 watt speakers I was thinking about installing. Can you please explain in simpler terms why the Kappa Pro-10LF 600 watt speakers would not be louder? One of the problems I am having with the current BP102 speakers is that they are farting out on the lower strings. With the addition of tweeters would the Kappa Pro-10LF work?

Given the cabinets I have built (ported) what speakers would be best for my application?

Thanks in advance for your help and I hope I have not pushed your patience too much with all my questions.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#167 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

The Kappa Pro 10-LF isn't as sensitive where you need it, from 60 to 100Hz, and doesn't have significantly more xmax than the BP102. IMO you're pushing too much in the lows, not enough in the mids. Where tens are concerned the BP102 is one of the most capable drivers made in the low end, so if you're farting them out cut back the low EQ. If I was to use S10s I'd load them with Deltalite II 2510, but for the better mids, not lows.

I assume that you've made sure that the two cabs together are better than one, if not one is reverse polarity.

Das Jugghead
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#168 Post by Das Jugghead »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:23 pm The Kappa Pro 10-LF isn't as sensitive where you need it, from 60 to 100Hz, and doesn't have significantly more xmax than the BP102. IMO you're pushing too much in the lows, not enough in the mids. Where tens are concerned the BP102 is one of the most capable drivers made in the low end, so if you're farting them out cut back the low EQ. If I was to use S10s I'd load them with Deltalite II 2510, but for the better mids, not lows.

I assume that you've made sure that the two cabs together are better than one, if not one is reverse polarity.
Thanks Bill I truly appreciate your input.

Tomorrow I have the day off so I will dial back the lows and boost the mids. I will report back with the results of those changes.

Yes I did in fact test the cabs separately and confirmed that the polarity is not reversed.

Thank you again for the feedback.

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Tom Smit
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#169 Post by Tom Smit »

Das Jugghead wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:57 pm Yes I did in fact test the cabs separately and confirmed that the polarity is not reversed.
Just to be clear, did you play one cab first, and then plugged the 2nd cab in as well? ....and it became louder?
TomS

Das Jugghead
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#170 Post by Das Jugghead »

Tom Smit wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:41 pm
Das Jugghead wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:57 pm Yes I did in fact test the cabs separately and confirmed that the polarity is not reversed.
Just to be clear, did you play one cab first, and then plugged the 2nd cab in as well? ....and it became louder?
Hey Tom. Yes I plugged amp into top cab and played, then plugged second cabinet into first cabinet and the volume with both cabinets connected was louder than the top cabinet by itself. I think the amp is just not as powerful as advertised.

The interesting thing is that plugging the Zoom B3n pedal into the guitar input jack on the Hartke TX600 made it crazy loud. When just playing the bass into the active input jack of the Hartke I had the gain and and the master maxed and the volume was miserable. With the Zoom B3n plugged into the active input jack of the Hartke I had both the gain and the master dialed back to the nine o'clock position. (For reference the knobs start at 7 o'clock and go to 5 o'clock.)

I am going to do some more fiddling today to see what (if anything) I can improve. I built the Simplexx 110's first to utilize some speakers I had on hand thinking that repurposing was a noble cause and second for the ease of transporting smaller cabinets. At this stage I am wrestling with the decision of building a second set of Simplexx 110's to see if that gets me to the volume I need to have in order to keep up with the band, replacing the speakers with Deltalite II 2510 as recommended by Bill, or abandoning the Simplexx project altogether and starting anew on a Jack 12 build. The problem is I look at the money and time I have sunk into gear over the last year or so and the guilt and embarrassment outweighs any sense of accomplishment I would otherwise have.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#171 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Das Jugghead wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:44 am The interesting thing is that plugging the Zoom B3n pedal into the guitar input jack on the Hartke TX600 made it crazy loud. When just playing the bass into the active input jack of the Hartke I had the gain and and the master maxed and the volume was miserable.
The active input is low gain. Try the passive input, which is high gain.

Das Jugghead
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#172 Post by Das Jugghead »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:01 am
Das Jugghead wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:44 am The interesting thing is that plugging the Zoom B3n pedal into the guitar input jack on the Hartke TX600 made it crazy loud. When just playing the bass into the active input jack of the Hartke I had the gain and and the master maxed and the volume was miserable.
The active input is low gain. Try the passive input, which is high gain.
Hey Bill interesting suggestion and I just tried it out. Here are two shots of the control panel. The first one is using the Active Input jack. Note the positions of the Gain and the Master control knobs:
IMG_7899.jpg
This one is using the Passive Input jack. Again note the positions of the Gain and the Master control knobs:
IMG_7900.jpg
This gave as close to the same volume as I could gauge using my ears. With using the Passive Input jack if I turned the Master up past the nine o'clock position the speakers began to fart on the E string. They fart on the B string long before that. I play a lot of B string in our songs so it is critical I overcome that. So I return to my previous question not to irritate but simply to make sure I am pursuing the correct course of action here as it relates to finding a workable solution for the Simplexx cabinets.

Now that volume seems to be better by using the Passive Input jack is the best course of action to build another set of Simplexx 110 cabinets and load them with the two remaining BP102's and install tweeters in all of them? Or should I load the cabinets with the Deltalite II 2510's and tweeters?

Many thanks in advance for your response.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#173 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

That tells me you have enough power but you're using way too much low EQ. If you rely on a lot of low end that's the job of PA subs. If you don't have a problem with the mids of the BP102s there's no need for different woofers, and if you don't want more highs there's no need for tweeters. Another pair of what you have would give more output of course, but they still don't take the place of PA subs.
Also, for the cleanest tone run the master high, the gain low. The way you have it is for the dirtiest possible tone. Since you used the active input I assume you have an active bass. If it has on-board bass EQ turn that down as well.

Das Jugghead
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#174 Post by Das Jugghead »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:51 am That tells me you have enough power but you're using way too much low EQ. If you rely on a lot of low end that's the job of PA subs. If you don't have a problem with the mids of the BP102s there's no need for different woofers, and if you don't want more highs there's no need for tweeters. Another pair of what you have would give more output of course, but they still don't take the place of PA subs.
Also, for the cleanest tone run the master high, the gain low. The way you have it is for the dirtiest possible tone. Since you used the active input I assume you have an active bass. If it has on-board bass EQ turn that down as well.
Hey Bill thank you for the response. I am off today so I am able to try out your advice. Heading down to the basement now to try rolling the gain back on the head.

Yes my bass is an active bass. I already have the bass knob on the onboard preamp rolled all the way back and the mid and treble knobs are centered.

I will say that the gain on the Hartke does not seem to create a "dirty" or "driven" sound but I will roll it back and see what happens.

UPDATE: Ok so I rolled the Gain knob back and it substantially affected the volume. By backing it off slightly it did seem to help with the farting out on the lower strings. Still not pleased with the lack of volume and think that another set of cabinets may be in order. On that note you referenced PA subs. I have the plans for a T24. Would I be better served making the T24 and stacking the Simplexx's on top of it? I assume I would need some sort of crossover to send the lower frequencies to the T24 and the other frequencies to the Simplexx's?
Last edited by Das Jugghead on Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#175 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

All the way back on the bass knob is probably too much. I just noticed it all the way down on the amp as well, also probably too much. Active tone controls tend to be flat when centered, so set at 9:00 usually indicates a fair amount of cut. I would try boosting the mids on the on-board.
Also, a basement isn't the best testing ground, unless it's large enough that you're not fighting boundary cancellations.

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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#176 Post by Das Jugghead »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:08 pm All the way back on the bass knob is probably too much. I just noticed it all the way down on the amp as well, also probably too much. Active tone controls tend to be flat when centered, so set at 9:00 usually indicates a fair amount of cut. I would try boosting the mids on the on-board.
Also, a basement isn't the best testing ground, unless it's large enough that you're not fighting boundary cancellations.

Hey Bill the basement is carpeted, the drums are surrounded by a carpet wall, and the walls have sound curtains that sit about an inch and a half out from the walls and hang floor to ceiling.
IMG_7883.jpg
Last edited by Das Jugghead on Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#177 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Subs are for PA, not the back line.

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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#178 Post by Das Jugghead »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:57 pm Subs are for PA, not the back line.
Copy that. Thank you

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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#179 Post by Das Jugghead »

I thought I would drop in and provide an update. On a hunch I felt that the Carvin DCM 3800L was not seeing a strong enough signal from the Zoom B3n. The first light would illuminate on the Carvin but never got any of the other lights to illuminate. I realize in a previous post (#156) I had said the other lights were illuminating but I was either imagining that they were illuminating or I had something else going on making me think they were illuminating. I had not been able to get the lights to illuminate since. Bottom line is that I provided unreliable information that has probably complicated the sorting out of my issues beyond what is reasonable and for that I humbly apologize. Here are the lights I am speaking of:

IMG_7850.jpg

Soooo... I wanted to try out an Art TPS II from Sweetwater https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... art-tps-ii but they were out of stock.

I found that the ART Pro MPA II was in stock plus had a low cut (similar to a HPF) as well as metering that would help me dial things in a little more accurately so I ordered one and it arrived today.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... pro-mpa-ii

Let me say that I think I have solved the issue issue of volume. The lights on the Carvin now illuminate so I feel confident the Carvin is seeing the signal strength it wants to see to operate properly.

This next part will probably get me into trouble but a few days ago I replaced the BP102's with Kappa Pro-10LF speakers. Today the drummer and I rehearsed together in preparation for auditioning a singer tomorrow. At only 50% volume on the Carvin with both of us wearing ear plugs the drummer asked me to turn it down. He said he felt like someone was hitting him in the chest with a 2 x 12 board. I asked him about the clarity and he said he could hear every note clearly and distinctly. He said he really liked the bass tone but that the volume was just too much. I am hoping I have the volume and clarity issue sorted out. I realize the Carvin DCM 3800 is WAY more power than I need but I like that I am not calling on everything it has to keep up with the band. I also wanted to add that there is zero farting on the low B string - it is just amazing how good it sounds. Solid. Mean. Clean. Powerful.
IMG_7958.jpg
IMG_7956.jpg
Last edited by Das Jugghead on Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#180 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Glad you got it sorted. This is the modeled low frequency response of the BP102 in red, the Kappa Pro LF in green, both in the ported S10.

Image

The BP102 has higher sensitivity in the midbass. The Kappa Pro can go louder due to more xmax and higher Pe, but only when driven with enough power.

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