Simplexx 110 Build

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Das Jugghead
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Location: Indianapolis

Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#106 Post by Das Jugghead »

Tom Smit wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:26 pm Clip a jumper onto the tip of the cord, and the other end of the jumper clip onto the barrel/sleeve...if it uses 1/4" jacks. Doing this will short the circuit and prevent the drivers in the old cab from moving/resonating in sympathy with the notes that the Simplexx cabs are putting out.

Ahh, yes. I was not very clear on my original post and went back in to correct/clarify. The "cabinet" that the speakers are sitting on is actually an old road case - not a "cabinet" that would house speakers.

As it stands, one of the speakers in the Simplexx cabinets was bad and while playing it made a sharp POPPING noise at the beginning of each note. It also did not sound as clear as the other speaker. I switched it out with one of the other BP102's I had and problem solved. I had four BP102 speakers from a prior Hartke re-speaker project that I wanted to reuse which is why I chose the Simplexx project. Now I am looking at the possibility of building another set of Simplexx 110's as I am not entirely confident they can keep up with the band. In one of my project's I play with two hard rock guitarists and a drummer. We have the drummer behind a carpet half wall but the volumes are still rather insane. The guitarists have turned down as much as possible and we all wear ear plugs. Eventually it will all settle in.

Das Jugghead
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:08 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#107 Post by Das Jugghead »

Okay I play a five string bass and I am still having issues with the speakers farting/distorting on the low open B string. This first noticeable at low volume and becomes even more pronounced as I turn up the power on my amplifier. At what will be rehearsal volume levels tomorrow this will be complete mud and worse than the forty year old Carvin 215 cabinet I have on loan from the drummer. This is really depressing. I am hoping someone can help me trouble shoot what I may have done wrong.

The cabinets are ported. The speaker jacks and speakers are gasketed. The back walls of the cabinets are lined with foam mattress topper from Walmart.

For background information:

ESP LTD B-5E https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/B5ENS
Boss TU-# Chromatic Tuner https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ith-bypass
MXR M87 Compressor https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ssor-pedal
Zoom B3n (running clean patches - no effects, no sims) https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/B3n
Carvin DCM 3800L http://carvinimages.com/documents/power ... manual.pdf
Simplexx 110 cabinets with BP102 (8 ohm) http://www.usspeaker.com/homepage.htm
Last edited by Das Jugghead on Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tom Smit
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#108 Post by Tom Smit »

Rotate the bass knob(s) down to lower levels since this is where most of the power is being used. By lessening the bass there is more power available for the other frequencies. The more audible/distinguishable frequencies are in the 2nd harmonics and up (above 100 hz).
TomS

Das Jugghead
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:08 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#109 Post by Das Jugghead »

Tom Smit wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:48 am Rotate the bass knob(s) down to lower levels since this is where most of the power is being used. By lessening the bass there is more power available for the other frequencies. The more audible/distinguishable frequencies are in the 2nd harmonics and up (above 100 hz).
Hey Tom thank you for your advice. I dialed the bass knob on my onboard preamp back as far as possible and this helped at low to moderate volume. Today the drummer was unable to make rehearsal due to some last minute personal business so we took the day to work just the guitar parts at low volume. I will see how it does at the next full rehearsal at higher volume. I wonder if I need to explore a graphic EQ pedal or rack mount unit - any thoughts?

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#110 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Das Jugghead wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:08 pm ESP LTD B-5E https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/B5ENS
Boss TU-# Chromatic Tuner https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ith-bypass
MXR M87 Compressor https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ssor-pedal
Zoom B3n (running clean patches - no effects, no sims) https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/B3n
Carvin DCM 3800L http://carvinimages.com/documents/power ... manual.pdf
Simplexx 110 cabinets with BP102 (8 ohm) http://www.usspeaker.com/homepage.htm
Where's your bass amp?

Das Jugghead
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:08 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#111 Post by Das Jugghead »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:56 pm
Das Jugghead wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:08 pm ESP LTD B-5E https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/B5ENS
Boss TU-# Chromatic Tuner https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ith-bypass
MXR M87 Compressor https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ssor-pedal
Zoom B3n (running clean patches - no effects, no sims) https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/B3n
Carvin DCM 3800L http://carvinimages.com/documents/power ... manual.pdf
Simplexx 110 cabinets with BP102 (8 ohm) http://www.usspeaker.com/homepage.htm
Where's your bass amp?
The Carvin DCM 3800L power amp

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#112 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

That's not a bass amp. It's a power amp, and one that's seriously way more than you need. Bass amps have built in pre-shape EQ, including high pass filtering, that's essential for good results, as well as the user adjustable front panel EQ knobs.

Bruce Weldy
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Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#113 Post by Bruce Weldy »

You have a few issues here......bottom line is that you are asking way too much from a pair of 10 inch direct radiators.

Let's start at the bass guitar. The low B string is 31hz. To reproduce this frequency, the speaker cone has to travel a long way especially at any kind of volume. Truth is, you've never heard the fundamental of your low B string unless you played it through a pretty hefty PA System......and most PAs for live sound are high passed above that.

The driver you are using is not a top of the line driver. Only 6.2 of Xmax and rated at 200 watts with a usable frequency response down to 40hz. When they say usable, that means that it's probably close to 10db down at that point. So, that speaker can't even reproduce the low B fundamental.

You are driving those two speakers with 3.5 times more power than they can handle (if you are running one per side at 8 ohms). This is gross overkill and not necessary to run bass cabs.

Processing......you have some but are most likely it's doesn't have the one thing you need in this setup. I'm talking about a high-pass filter. As Bill mentioned, bass amps have this built in. Your guitar pedal has EQ, but most likely there is not high pass filter. So, all of that low-end content is trying to come out of the drivers. The compressor is only adding more gain to a bad situation....nothing wrong with one, but in your current signal chain, it's not helping.

Tom was right in saying that you need to turn down the bass knob. However, that probably isn't going to be enough to make this work. A graphic EQ where you can pull everything totally out below 50hz would be a start.

Best bet would be to dump the Carvin and get a small bass head......several manufacturers make 300-600 watt heads that have the proper EQ in them ...... remember, these manufacturers don't want to blow up their own speaker cabinets (they know their cabs won't get much below 50hz), so some high-pass protection is built in.

The farting out is all because of the issues listed above. You are trying to put 10 pounds of potatoes in a 5 pound sack. Get rid of the low frequencies and you'll get the right amount of potatoes for your sack.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Das Jugghead
Posts: 142
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Location: Indianapolis

Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#114 Post by Das Jugghead »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:29 pm That's not a bass amp. It's a power amp, and one that's seriously way more than you need. Bass amps have built in pre-shape EQ, including high pass filtering, that's essential for good results, as well as the user adjustable front panel EQ knobs.
Alright then. I had the Carvin from before when I ran a Sansamp RBI with the power amp.

What bass amp(s) would you recommend? Is it possible to run the power amp with a crossover and/or EQ? the reason I ask is that I have a fair amount of cash out on the amp and now that Carvin has gone out of the amp business I am the rueful owner of an orphan amp.

Das Jugghead
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:08 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#115 Post by Das Jugghead »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:41 pm You have a few issues here......bottom line is that you are asking way too much from a pair of 10 inch direct radiators.

Let's start at the bass guitar. The low B string is 31hz. To reproduce this frequency, the speaker cone has to travel a long way especially at any kind of volume. Truth is, you've never heard the fundamental of your low B string unless you played it through a pretty hefty PA System......and most PAs for live sound are high passed above that.

The driver you are using is not a top of the line driver. Only 6.2 of Xmax and rated at 200 watts with a usable frequency response down to 40hz. When they say usable, that means that it's probably close to 10db down at that point. So, that speaker can't even reproduce the low B fundamental.

You are driving those two speakers with 3.5 times more power than they can handle (if you are running one per side at 8 ohms). This is gross overkill and not necessary to run bass cabs.

Processing......you have some but are most likely it's doesn't have the one thing you need in this setup. I'm talking about a high-pass filter. As Bill mentioned, bass amps have this built in. Your guitar pedal has EQ, but most likely there is not high pass filter. So, all of that low-end content is trying to come out of the drivers. The compressor is only adding more gain to a bad situation....nothing wrong with one, but in your current signal chain, it's not helping.

Tom was right in saying that you need to turn down the bass knob. However, that probably isn't going to be enough to make this work. A graphic EQ where you can pull everything totally out below 50hz would be a start.

Best bet would be to dump the Carvin and get a small bass head......several manufacturers make 300-600 watt heads that have the proper EQ in them ...... remember, these manufacturers don't want to blow up their own speaker cabinets (they know their cabs won't get much below 50hz), so some high-pass protection is built in.

The farting out is all because of the issues listed above. You are trying to put 10 pounds of potatoes in a 5 pound sack. Get rid of the low frequencies and you'll get the right amount of potatoes for your sack.

Hey Bruce thank you very much for the detailed response. I really do appreciate the explanations. I have my work cut out for me here.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#116 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Das Jugghead wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:44 pm Is it possible to run the power amp with a crossover and/or EQ?
I'd use it where it's appropriate, on the PA. It's got enough power to run both mains and subs on a good sized rig.

Das Jugghead
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Location: Indianapolis

Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#117 Post by Das Jugghead »

Bill, Tom, and Bruce,

First off I want to say that I truly appreciate your responses here. I have a couple of questions that I hope will not be misinterpreted as argumentative - simply trying to make sure I understand and am choosing the right course of action.

I am looking at a number of bass amps and trying to narrow down choices. I am using several criteria in this search one being the presence of Speakon plugs for the speaker outputs - does this matter? Should I maintain consistency of Speakon to Speakon or am I okay going from a 1/4" output jack on the bass amp to the Speakon input jack on the Simplexx cabinets?

Some of the bass amps I am looking into are of the micoamp type and they seem appropriate for my current set-up; here are a few:
The last two are a little more power than I currently need but I also have an eye down the road for my next bass cabinet build which may or may not require additional power. For present I am of the "better to have more power and not need it than to need more power and not have it" school of thought here. On that note if the Simplexx cabinets are not ideal for a five string bass what cabinet and speaker would be ideal for a five string bass playing hard/prog rock?

Are there any amps in the list I provided above that anyone would recommend against using?

I think that's it for the moment but I am sure I will have more questions as this process goes on.

Thank you for your patience and indulgence.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#118 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

I'd avoid the TC, because it's not a 250w amp. Fake news. Behringer/Bugera (same thing) tends to use cheap hardware. Hartke and Peavey both have reputations as very well made long lasting gear. I'd go with the Hartke for the built in compressor, which eliminates the need for an external unit.

Bruce Weldy
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Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#119 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Genz Benz has a good rep for these amps....

http://www.genzbenz.com/?fa=detail&mid= ... 610&cid=95

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Simplexx 110 Build

#120 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Das Jugghead wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:53 am I am using several criteria in this search one being the presence of Speakon plugs for the speaker outputs - does this matter? Should I maintain consistency of Speakon to Speakon or am I okay going from a 1/4" output jack on the bass amp to the Speakon input jack on the Simplexx cabinets?
Doesn't matter at all. Just a different connector on each end of the cable. I've built some of these for my old bass player.
On that note if the Simplexx cabinets are not ideal for a five string bass what cabinet and speaker would be ideal for a five string bass playing hard/prog rock?
The answer is that they are ideal for 5 string bass. The answer is also that they are horrible for 5 string bass.

The real question is how you use them. Do you play through a PA with subs that handles getting your bass sound out front? Is your rig just there for you to monitor yourself? If yes, then the boxes you built should serve that purpose just fine.

Are you playing in small places with no PA support at reasonable levels? If so, then you should be fine.

If you are playing large places with no PA support and you need to carry a big room from your rig, then you probably need something else. That would either be a stack of Jack 12s (probably 4 of 'em), or a T39 (or 48)/OT12 combination. Then you'll need a proper crossover and a good bass preamp. This would let you use that Carvin amp you have......because you are essentially using your own small PA system.

It's always best to go as small as possible without a lot of low end on stage if you are playing through a PA - this keeps the bottom end on the stage from fighting the house sound.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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