Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

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heavybdrums
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Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#1 Post by heavybdrums »

Started this AM with plans and 4'x8' Russian Birch and now have a horn and case @ 11:45 PM :
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Last edited by heavybdrums on Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
4x WH8 delta pro
2x WH10 Deltalite 2510
4x Dr250 Deltalite II 2510
8X Titan 39 3012lf, 28"
4X Tuba 60 W/ lab 15
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heavybdrums
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#2 Post by heavybdrums »

The WH8's I just finished a few days ago got used at band practice this Sat. and they worked like a charm, crisp and present and plenty loud. My bandmates were pretty impressed at how nice they looked and how well they were built. My buddy (bass player) couldn't believe they were "homemade", (but of course they had never seen any of my other woodworking projects so..how could they know?). Now that I have started these WH 10's I find the 10's are a LOT bigger than the 8's, just figured that 2 more inches of speaker wouldn't make the cabs much larger, but they are quite large in comparison. Guess it's in proportion and a longer horn for more bass response. These will have the Eminence Deltalite 2510 and 8 Goldwood piezo tweeters in a melded array. Now I noticed in the WH8 plans, it said to use 8 in the array if your using the delta pro instead of the stock 6, to have enough tweeters for the higher output woofer, but found no note suggesting more than the stock 8 array in the WH 10 when using the 2510. Would you recommend more than 8 when using that woofer? Well it's not recommended in the plans so I'm guessing NOT.
4x WH8 delta pro
2x WH10 Deltalite 2510
4x Dr250 Deltalite II 2510
8X Titan 39 3012lf, 28"
4X Tuba 60 W/ lab 15
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Bruce Weldy
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#3 Post by Bruce Weldy »

8 is the right number.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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heavybdrums
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#4 Post by heavybdrums »

Bruce Weldy wrote:8 is the right number.
Thanks Bruce, thought that was the case.
4x WH8 delta pro
2x WH10 Deltalite 2510
4x Dr250 Deltalite II 2510
8X Titan 39 3012lf, 28"
4X Tuba 60 W/ lab 15
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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#5 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

It doesn't need more than eight tweeters because the increased size isn't for going louder, it's for going lower.

ripNdeb
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#6 Post by ripNdeb »

Indeed; you'll have to EQ the highs down (probably) anyway, and they are BIG and they DO go lower. I could use one of these and one of my t39s for small gigs FOH. :)
2X OTop 112, 3012HO, melded - 2X T39, 27", Lab 12 - XF 212 - 4 DR250, 2 melded, 2 straight
2 20" T39 3012LF - WH10 - WH8 - in the shop - 2 more 20" T39s
http://saltandlighteureka.org still need a trailer :)

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heavybdrums
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#7 Post by heavybdrums »

ripNdeb wrote:Indeed; you'll have to EQ the highs down (probably) anyway, and they are BIG and they DO go lower. I could use one of these and one of my t39s for small gigs FOH. :)
Comforting to know that they will have a full frequency range as that is what I'm building them for (drums, bass, keys monitor + some vocals). Also as more and more cabs get built I can foresee the possibility of using some of the WH10's as more distant sort of side fill speakers or possibly build some otops or jacks for side fills, but there will eventually be 4 dr 250's for mains. Haven't decided on the dimension/speaker component to be used in the titans yet, but would like if it's possible to size and use speakers such that I would never need more than 4.
4x WH8 delta pro
2x WH10 Deltalite 2510
4x Dr250 Deltalite II 2510
8X Titan 39 3012lf, 28"
4X Tuba 60 W/ lab 15
FB: https://www.facebook.com/sunsoundservices/ likes appreciated

Grant Bunter
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#8 Post by Grant Bunter »

Just remember that WH10's primary design purpose is still vocal intelligibility. That they are more full range than a WH8 is a bonus, allowing them to cover drums/bass/keys.

I know we want to think of cabs that can be dual purpose, to reduce builds and costs.
Sometimes that's achievable, sometimes not.
I would go Jacks as side fill. Not Otops, as they aren't full range cabs.
Even then, technically at least, you could run into phase issues, as Jacks would have different path lengths to the rest of the cabs in your final set up...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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heavybdrums
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#9 Post by heavybdrums »

Grant Bunter wrote:Just remember that WH10's primary design purpose is still vocal intelligibility. That they are more full range than a WH8 is a bonus, allowing them to cover drums/bass/keys.

I know we want to think of cabs that can be dual purpose, to reduce builds and costs.
Sometimes that's achievable, sometimes not.
I would go Jacks as side fill. Not Otops, as they aren't full range cabs.
Even then, technically at least, you could run into phase issues, as Jacks would have different path lengths to the rest of the cabs in your final set up...
Got ya Grant and thanks, in reality side fills are pretty far down the wish list and may be unnecessary in most situations, but good to have that info. When referring to Jacks as side fills causing phase problems with the rest of the system, do you mean with the rest of the monitors on stage or interfering with the mains, or probably the entire set up, and what is your pro take on using side fills anyhow? I'm gonna definitely be using 2X WH8 and 2X WH 10 and possibly one or two more monitors, and gonna tackle 2 DR 250's and at least 2 Titans large as I can handle and pack.
4x WH8 delta pro
2x WH10 Deltalite 2510
4x Dr250 Deltalite II 2510
8X Titan 39 3012lf, 28"
4X Tuba 60 W/ lab 15
FB: https://www.facebook.com/sunsoundservices/ likes appreciated

Grant Bunter
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#10 Post by Grant Bunter »

There's plenty of people out there using side fill.
I guess the real world application is when you don't have enough mains spill to hear mains onstage to a satisfying level. You're often getting to very large stage or stadium for that situation.
Bottom end from the subs is omnidirectional, so you should always be able to hear that on stage (and it's more realistic if you delay subs to the backline, so that you can get more precise, for example, with your kick, and it all sounds right).

The phase issue is one of trying to use multiple cabs of different phase (each and every cab design has it's own inherent phase characteristics) when trying to produce the same bandpass through them.
Doing this can cause frequency cancellations. Then you try to adjust by EQ and delay etc, but because phase is frequency dependant, what you do to fix one "problem" area in response due to phase, leads to a problem in another frequency. Catch 22.

So, ideally you would use the same cab(s) for side fill as you do for FOH, but you're not doing that, because for FOH you're using subs and tops/mains, where in sidefill you're looking to use full range cabs.

It's something you have to experiment with.
For example, by rights, I should have a phase problem when I use my WH8's for foldback for vocalists guitar etc, but also use my POS 15"/CD's for drum fill. That hasn't been the case so far, but theoretically, you need to be aware of the potential, for that one day in a given situation where it just doesn't seem to be going right, no matter what you do...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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heavybdrums
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#11 Post by heavybdrums »

Nothing beats real world experience like you have Grant thanks for explaining, really most appreciated.

WH10 horn ready for polyurethane:
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The first coat applied:
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4x WH8 delta pro
2x WH10 Deltalite 2510
4x Dr250 Deltalite II 2510
8X Titan 39 3012lf, 28"
4X Tuba 60 W/ lab 15
FB: https://www.facebook.com/sunsoundservices/ likes appreciated

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heavybdrums
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#12 Post by heavybdrums »

When doing poly inside horns i prefer to do the scraping/sanding and coating before installing the tweeter array mount sticks. Think i did a pretty good job on the port mounting in the horns (don't think anyone would say I didn't use enough PL :loler: ). For the holes I used the circle cutting jig, because I don't happen to have a 2-1/2" dia drill bit, Then used 2 sided sticky tape to tape a scrap of wood inside the horn(flush side). Applied plenty of PL and smeared it thoroughly around the diameter of the pvc pipe on the outside of the horn, let dry, remove the scrap and filled the gap inside the horn around the pvc pipe with PL, then sanded it all flush. Around here 2" pvc pipe is 2-3/8" OD so there winds up being a pretty good gap around the pipe.
4x WH8 delta pro
2x WH10 Deltalite 2510
4x Dr250 Deltalite II 2510
8X Titan 39 3012lf, 28"
4X Tuba 60 W/ lab 15
FB: https://www.facebook.com/sunsoundservices/ likes appreciated

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#13 Post by Bruce Weldy »

"that horn's got a purty mouth boy..."

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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heavybdrums
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#14 Post by heavybdrums »

Bruce Weldy wrote:"that horn's got a purty mouth boy..."
:loler: :loler: Thanks Bruce!! leme play ya a song: dana-nar-nar-nar-na-nar-nar-nar (response) dana-nar nar nar.... :chainsaw: :chainsaw:
4x WH8 delta pro
2x WH10 Deltalite 2510
4x Dr250 Deltalite II 2510
8X Titan 39 3012lf, 28"
4X Tuba 60 W/ lab 15
FB: https://www.facebook.com/sunsoundservices/ likes appreciated

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heavybdrums
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Re: Wedgehorn 10's W/ Urethane horns

#15 Post by heavybdrums »

finished horn, stalled, waiting on parts, before installing horn into case:
Image
Image
4x WH8 delta pro
2x WH10 Deltalite 2510
4x Dr250 Deltalite II 2510
8X Titan 39 3012lf, 28"
4X Tuba 60 W/ lab 15
FB: https://www.facebook.com/sunsoundservices/ likes appreciated

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