OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

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Bruce Weldy
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OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#1 Post by Bruce Weldy » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:29 am

I just did an acoustic gig the other night and will probably be doing more now that the band is probably finished.

So, now I'm thinking about something small and light for those gigs. I have OT12s, but don't want to drag them out of the trailer to do small stuff. I've been using a Yamaha SM12V on top of my T24 - but's that's a bit of overkill for two acoustics and mics.

My choices for light and small for a full-range acoustic gig are:

OTop8
SLA Pro
Simplexx10

It looks like the Simplexx, while not as loud, goes much lower than the other two. I don't need a lot of volume, but I do want some extension below 100hz. I can't find any weight for the Simplexx anywhere....anybody have a clue?

The OTop 8 and the SLA Pro are going to be as heavy as the OTop12s that I already have. I left the Jack out of the equation due to it's weight.

Not really happy to have to take speaker stands for any of these, but the trade off would be leaving the T24 at home....it's a pain to lift - just no place for handles.

Anyway, I'm open to suggestions......but, I'm leaning toward the Simplexx (always wanted to try a coaxial speaker).

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#2 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:49 am

S10 for no sub acoustic gigs while still having capability below 100Hz. That's gained with sensitivity being the trade off, but you don't need sensitivity for acoustic gigs. Figure about 30 pounds.

Bruce Weldy
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Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#3 Post by Bruce Weldy » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:26 am

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:S10 for no sub acoustic gigs while still having capability below 100Hz. That's gained with sensitivity being the trade off, but you don't need sensitivity for acoustic gigs. Figure about 30 pounds.
Thanks. I think that's the way to go......now, where was that table saw??

Probably have to wait until after Christmas....and to see how many of those gigs I book.

Are the horns too far apart to stack? Don't know that I would, but just in case the need arises....

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#4 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:58 pm

They'd be OK in a spiral array, where high frequency coupling never happens anyway.

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Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#5 Post by alexk » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:26 pm

Forgive the extremely basic question, but I don't see the use of "spiral array" anywhere else. Is that placing speakers atop eachother at different angles to obtain a wider useable range like in the picture? Or is it something else? Google isn't being helpful.

Image

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#6 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:27 pm

That is a spiral array. It can be done in a single cab as well, with as many elements as you wish. You won't find the term used other than in technical documents that take a lot of work to track down. Search engines list hits in their order of popularity, and publications like the JAES aren't exactly main stream.

Bruce Weldy
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Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#7 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:03 pm

Been going over the S10 plans.....

The crossover plans are only different based on impedance, which leads me to believe that the crossover point is 2.5k as described on the second page of the plans for the APT80.

Using that crossover for the Beta10CX version is leaving some of the output of the ASD1001 on the table. Could the 2.k crossover from the OT12 plans be used in order to lower the crossover frequency when using the ASD driver?

And to step it up a bit, how about if I wanted to use the NSD2005S instead of the ASD? Could I use the OT12 crossover for that also? It's about 5db hotter - is that too much to try and EQ out?

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#8 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:26 pm

Go over the plans again, this time past page 2. The crossover for use with the 10CX/ASD is 2kHz. :noob:

I wouldn't use the 2005 with the 10CX, it's too hot to match well with a direct radiating woofer, and you wouldn't be able to go to 1.2kHz, the coaxial horn is too small.

Grant Bunter
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Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#9 Post by Grant Bunter » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:35 pm

The beta 10(CX) is already down in the mids (compared to a 2510 ) by around 5dB. That's the figure in a horn loaded cab like the DR250.
There's no horn in the simplexx obviously, to up sensitivity of the beta10.
I reckon if you switch to an NSD, the NSD is going to way overun the beta10.

Haha, just like Bill says.

On a different note, Bruce, glad to see you're still wanting to get out and play, band or no.
I get very few opportunities these days.
So I was glad to receive a last minute call to play at the local town Christmas Carols night...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6150
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#10 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:45 pm

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:Go over the plans again, this time past page 2. The crossover for use with the 10CX/ASD is 2kHz. :noob:

I wouldn't use the 2005 with the 10CX, it's too hot to match well with a direct radiating woofer, and you wouldn't be able to go to 1.2kHz, the coaxial horn is too small.
I've been through all the pages.....not silly enough to post without checking first. But, just to be sure, I just went through it all again.....

The crossover section only differentiates the different impedance loads. It doesn't show a different crossover for 2k. My assumption is that the crossover is 2.5k as per:

The S10 crossover is at 2.5kHz, so there is no midrange dip. You may substitute a different tweeter so long as it’s close to the APT 80 specs. The APT 80 is recommended for use above 3.5kHz with a 2nd order high pass filter. The 4th order filter we use allows it to run to 2.5kHz.

A 2k option isn't listed anywhere that I can find. So, I assumed that the crossover was designed at 2.5 to facilitate the APT80 and the ASD just used the same one.

What did I miss? My plans are from April 2015.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6150
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#11 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:52 pm

Grant Bunter wrote:
On a different note, Bruce, glad to see you're still wanting to get out and play, band or no.
I get very few opportunities these days.
So I was glad to receive a last minute call to play at the local town Christmas Carols night...
Yep, just want to play. Have my monthly sideman gig tonight. I may open the show with an acoustic solo set.

Don't get too wild on the skins playing those carols....

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

User avatar
Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#12 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:59 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote: What did I miss?
Page 17: These schematics show the high pass sections of the 2kHz crossover, for use with the ASD 1001 and BGH25-8 horns or their equivalents...These schematics show the low pass sections of the 2kHz crossover for 4 ohm, 8 ohm and 16 ohm cabs:

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6150
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#13 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:07 pm

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
Bruce Weldy wrote: What did I miss?
Page 17: These schematics show the high pass sections of the 2kHz crossover, for use with the ASD 1001 and BGH25-8 horns or their equivalents...These schematics show the low pass sections of the 2kHz crossover for 4 ohm, 8 ohm and 16 ohm cabs:
I know there has been an update, but it said it only had to do with bass-only cabs, so I didn't get it. My page 17 is the last page of the plans.

Also, there is no mention of the BGH25-8 horn in my plans, so I guess there was more to the update than listed.

I'll order the updated plans.

Thanks

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Grant Bunter
Posts: 5689
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
Contact:

Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#14 Post by Grant Bunter » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:27 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote: Don't get too wild on the skins playing those carols....
Lol, gig is done, and I didn't. If it was too loud it was the sound guys fault hehehehehe
First ever time on stage with an electronic kit. And no monitors for me.
Thank goodness I could hear bass and kick in FOH, and guitar and Vox in monitors...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6150
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: OT8 vs. SLA vs. Simplexx 10

#15 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:08 pm

Grant Bunter wrote:
Bruce Weldy wrote: Don't get too wild on the skins playing those carols....

First ever time on stage with an electronic kit. And no monitors for me.
.
I love e-drums, but that's just wrong!!!!!

The drummer I work with uses in-ears and loves it, but it can be done just fine with monitors also....but, I guess you have to actually have one....

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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