custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

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Tom Smit
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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#16 Post by Tom Smit » Thu May 16, 2019 12:48 am

Nice sign!
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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#17 Post by himhimself » Thu May 16, 2019 12:01 pm

Very cool sign, thanks for sharing.
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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#18 Post by himhimself » Thu May 16, 2019 12:21 pm

Between efficient BFM cabs and LED lighting, you can put on quite the show without drawing much juice at all. Could probably run everything off even a small and quiet 2kW inverter generator.
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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#19 Post by ACUA » Thu May 16, 2019 1:37 pm

I have a Honda 2200 and it powers my rig with head room!!! All thanks to bfm and all of you guys.
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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#20 Post by AcousticScience » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:01 am

To be honest I recently bought a watt meter and two peavey IPR1600 on Idle and a DBx driverack PA+ is about 100 watts. 17 of that is for the Driverack PA+ (uses about as much as a human brain). I turned the system up to the level to do a disco at a village hall that was loud enough at the back to have to really raise your voice quite a bit to be heard although not deafening but not dinner music either. Okay the hall was also fairly echoey and about 16m by 8m with 3m ceiling.

The power consumption rose from 100 to 130 watts or so, and this is with two 12" bass reflex subwoofers - albeit each 96dB sensitivity flat to 40Hz firing into the front right corner. About 3 watts of this power was probably for the Omnitop 12 which I confirmed by turning the sub amp down to 0. Only when I really start slamming the system does it rise into the 100s of watts. If I ran in mono on one amp I could be disco-ing a village hall for under the 100 watt mark (including my 4 watt disco light bulb :lol: ). Less if I had two titan 39 V-Plate and could probably drop 6dB from the subs. Heck if I swapped out the Peavey for my SMSL SA-98E I'd have the most environmentally friendly disco on the planet short of Michael Ewald Hansen's Boominator. Even the amplifiers in those speakers which come after sending off tokens from 3 cans of pringles will drive an Omnitop louder than a small bar would like a DJ to play (although those chips overheat easily on 6V without a heat sink)

As for talks of higher power output than in from the wall, this is actually possible because music is dynamic. If I have 1000 watt kick drums kicking for 10% of the song (rather than drumming like an AK47), then I only need to average 100 watts input divided by whatever the efficiency of the amp is. Depending upon the storage capacity in the amp capacitors. I only need the full 1000 watts to run a continuous sine wave. The most compressed music (that's not a subwoofer tester) usually only averages about a quarter power.

My electric kettle is 3000 watts and though I haven't and don't want to try two of them on the same socket, the socket didn't seem on the verge of blowing out even though it says Max 13 amp 230V. Based on that and the duty cycle of music I can run a 10,000 watt amp to its maximum off a single wall socket on most music (although UK sockets have more power output). My electric shower is around 8000 watt continuously on so if I had monster amps I'd have to wire them up to a supply like that going to the shower. Same voltage but thicker wiring.

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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#21 Post by ACUA » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:35 pm

There in lies the rub, serious evaluation needs considered when defining terminology. There is a big difference between RMS power and a peaking value... looks to me like there is a lot of blurring lines between specs.

It is because music is so transient that the RMS value is the spec that matters. Having said that I get how consumer products operate the way they do. I value an affordable system that does a lot on a little...

At full tilt or near it I am pulling 6-8amps out of the 1800w wall outlet on my rig. That equates to 700-1000w which is the closest to a real viable RMS value I know how to get to and that includes my laptop and phone charging and the few lights I have. My system is really only a 1kw system at best. The use of the wattage figure to express performance is truly useless.

When a 10kw system is plugged in to a 1800w outlet, the 10kw spec has to be more of a peaking value and not an RMS value. To me a peak spec can have value however rarely is it used how it should be. Yes, said 10kw sound rig can output an electrical signal that strong but not even close to producing an RMS at that level off the supply stated. If you put a UPS unit in line you could run a true 10kw rig with the 1800w plug but the UPS would deplete if the 10kw rig was ran at full tilt long enough.

I find annoyance talking to persons who emphasize big number specs such as a 10kw sound rig. To me he is saying my system is capable of some large arbitrary numeric specification as if the bigger the number somehow proves his level of superiority and that that is the name of the game.

I went to a local car stereo gathering not too long ago, it’s so funny to me the guy who pegs the meter with the highest number wins all the chicks all the fans all the fame and glory, and yet when I demo the sound of said legendary car sound system, what I get is the car letting out the biggest fart imaginable. My illustration on the experience correctly articulated what I hear feel and most of the time smell from the coil burn!!!!

I plan to build a more than necessary sound system that runs on way less than normally excepted power in those settings and do my sound demos with the engine off and demo for a long time and still not have much battery drain....
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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#22 Post by BrentEvans » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:22 pm

You have to be careful using something like a Killawatt to measure amp current draw. Amps like the IpRs rely on instantaneous peak power to do their job. That can trip a breaker even if the average is much lower. Further, try to run a few of them on a cheap Generator. You’ll find out quickly what I’m talking about . They pull very large but brief sips of power that the generator just can’t supply.
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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#23 Post by SethRocksYou » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:18 am

BrentEvans wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:22 pm
You have to be careful using something like a Killawatt to measure amp current draw. Amps like the IpRs rely on instantaneous peak power to do their job. That can trip a breaker even if the average is much lower. Further, try to run a few of them on a cheap Generator. You’ll find out quickly what I’m talking about . They pull very large but brief sips of power that the generator just can’t supply.
Brent, I've read about that several times, but it was always in regards to the Behringer iNuke series amps. I think CoronaOperator posted a link sometime back where someone did a fairly technical testing of an NU6000 that indicated exactly what you're saying. Are all the budget class D amps suffering the same issue, lack of power factor correction (or something like that)? I was eyeballing the Peavy lineup, thinking they would be better on generator power (12kw Kohler marine diesel gen-set, if it makes a difference) than the Behringer offerings.

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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#24 Post by SethRocksYou » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:41 am

ACUA wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 5:39 pm
So, when I do a gig, I like to run... ...a digital mixer...
I know this thread has marinated a little. I must have missed it when it was fresh. Glad to see you ended up with the XR18. I remember you asking about mixers when you finished up your tubas. I have the XR18 and M32C. Having used both, I'm super impressed with everything the XR18 is. I did one show on mine that had every input used, multi-track recorded the whole show, and ran sound from my PC and had a Tablet for backup. That show is what had me step up and get the 32. However, in the couple years I've had the 32, I haven't had a show that the XR18 wouldn't have covered, input wise. The recording is easier on the X/M32 with the XLive Expansion card (records all tracks to SD cards) instead of having to run a USB from the XR18 to a PC running a DAW to record.

Anyway... just mentioned it because I wanted to give ya a thumbs up on your choice :thumbsup:

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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#25 Post by BrentEvans » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:33 pm

SethRocksYou wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:18 am
BrentEvans wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:22 pm
You have to be careful using something like a Killawatt to measure amp current draw. Amps like the IpRs rely on instantaneous peak power to do their job. That can trip a breaker even if the average is much lower. Further, try to run a few of them on a cheap Generator. You’ll find out quickly what I’m talking about . They pull very large but brief sips of power that the generator just can’t supply.
Brent, I've read about that several times, but it was always in regards to the Behringer iNuke series amps. I think CoronaOperator posted a link sometime back where someone did a fairly technical testing of an NU6000 that indicated exactly what you're saying. Are all the budget class D amps suffering the same issue, lack of power factor correction (or something like that)? I was eyeballing the Peavy lineup, thinking they would be better on generator power (12kw Kohler marine diesel gen-set, if it makes a difference) than the Behringer offerings.
I have a bunch of the IPRs. The smallest generator I’ve ever used was a 25kw at a festival. The 3000s I use for monitors were tickling DDT all day and didn’t have a problem. The 7500s I have for subs were cruising, also without a problem.

I can tell you that the 7500s do have the beefy capacitors in them while the 3000s have some caps, but not nearly as many or as as big. I assume that this means they do have SOME PFC but I have never been able to find any info on how much. I’ve also never tried to run them on a garden store generator. I treat them as though whatever PFC they have basically doesn’t exist.

What would be really interesting to see is an analysis of them running using a fast response ammeter. Maybe I’ll do that sometime. When I have time. Which I don’t ever seem to. :wall: Life.
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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#26 Post by ACUA » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:07 pm

SethRocksYou wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:41 am
ACUA wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 5:39 pm
So, when I do a gig, I like to run... ...a digital mixer...
I know this thread has marinated a little. I must have missed it when it was fresh. Glad to see you ended up with the XR18. I remember you asking about mixers when you finished up your tubas. I have the XR18 and M32C. Having used both, I'm super impressed with everything the XR18 is. I did one show on mine that had every input used, multi-track recorded the whole show, and ran sound from my PC and had a Tablet for backup. That show is what had me step up and get the 32. However, in the couple years I've had the 32, I haven't had a show that the XR18 wouldn't have covered, input wise. The recording is easier on the X/M32 with the XLive Expansion card (records all tracks to SD cards) instead of having to run a USB from the XR18 to a PC running a DAW to record.

Anyway... just mentioned it because I wanted to give ya a thumbs up on your choice :thumbsup:
I like this mixer, once I abandoned the internal router. It has a ton of functions and the lack of clip indicator annoys me some. I struggle to remember how to engage and route aux sends, routing fx and things has been hard to memorize but other than that I really like it I don’t mix live but I am somewhat equipped so that’s good. I’m glad you paid attention and I agree this mixer had been worth the $600 bill
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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#27 Post by SethRocksYou » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:56 pm

Yeah, I only use the internal router when we're rehearsing at the house, in client mode it automatically connects to the home network and my PC or tablet find it and connect seamlessly. That way I can maintain my internet connection on the PC without having to switch back and forth between networks. Actual performances are always through an external wireless router and line of site between my mixing position and the router, so the router usually gets placed as high as possible. I'm kinda in the same boat as you, in that it's not something I do regularly. Getting up to speed was a pretty steep learning curve and I find myself having to relearn a lot of ins and outs from time to time too.

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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#28 Post by NukePooch » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:28 pm

SethRocksYou wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:41 am

I know this thread has marinated a little. I must have missed it when it was fresh. Glad to see you ended up with the XR18. I remember you asking about mixers when you finished up your tubas. I have the XR18 and M32C. Having used both, I'm super impressed with everything the XR18 is. I did one show on mine that had every input used, multi-track recorded the whole show, and ran sound from my PC and had a Tablet for backup. That show is what had me step up and get the 32. However, in the couple years I've had the 32, I haven't had a show that the XR18 wouldn't have covered, input wise. The recording is easier on the X/M32 with the XLive Expansion card (records all tracks to SD cards) instead of having to run a USB from the XR18 to a PC running a DAW to record.

Anyway... just mentioned it because I wanted to give ya a thumbs up on your choice :thumbsup:
The XR mixers are crazy impressive. I've had a Behringer X32 Rack for years. Love it. Set a friend up with an XR18 a couple years back, it impressed me so much that I bought an XR12 for tiny gigs. For both XR's (and of course the X32), I used an external router from day 1. I had plans on getting a couple digi stageboxes for the X32, but since I'm not doing as much now due to life changes, I might not get to it. The standard X32 Rack was able to do just about everything I needed (I once had to submix some vocal mics on an analog mixer to get more channels), the stageboxes would just make stage wiring easier/more convenient. I run all Android, the XR18 my friend runs his on iPad. Both work well. The only thing I don't like is the X32's EditPC interface (I run a laptop as a wired backup control for big gigs).

Amazing that I can carry all that processing in a 6-space rack (with a Crown XLS, and some wireless mics). Buries any powered mixer and isn't much bigger. Technology is amazing.
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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#29 Post by SethRocksYou » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:29 pm

NukePooch wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:28 pm
The XR mixers are crazy impressive. I've had a Behringer X32 Rack for years. Love it. Set a friend up with an XR18 a couple years back, it impressed me so much that I bought an XR12 for tiny gigs. For both XR's (and of course the X32), I used an external router from day 1. I had plans on getting a couple digi stageboxes for the X32, but since I'm not doing as much now due to life changes, I might not get to it. The standard X32 Rack was able to do just about everything I needed (I once had to submix some vocal mics on an analog mixer to get more channels), the stageboxes would just make stage wiring easier/more convenient. I run all Android, the XR18 my friend runs his on iPad. Both work well. The only thing I don't like is the X32's EditPC interface (I run a laptop as a wired backup control for big gigs).

Amazing that I can carry all that processing in a 6-space rack (with a Crown XLS, and some wireless mics). Buries any powered mixer and isn't much bigger. Technology is amazing.
I currently have the S32 rack mount stage box and it's handy. However, like you, I've been kicking around the idea of two SD16 stage boxes instead. Seems it would/could shorten xlr runs and do some de-cluttering/trip hazard reduction too, with one series run of Cat5 and a couple power cords. We'll see.

I've primarily used my PC for control of either. But, I just got an X-Touch tactile control surface and got it connected wirelessly to the M32C mixer's network with a WiFi Bridge. Gotta say, there is something about having an actual fader/attenuater/slider/(whatever you wanna call it) to touch that is satisfying. It's pretty slick. So far, I'd recommend it too. Although, I literally got it up and running just a few hours ago and have only virtual sound checked/mixed it from a multitrack recording of a past rehearsal.

I also recently purchased a Klark Teknik DM8008 to make wireless IEM deployment and routing a snap. It gets it's signal for 8 assignable line level outputs (perfect for 4 stereo IEM transmitters) through the Ultranet connections, over Cat 5 cable. It's not something I really need. I just got geeked out on the idea of it and sold myself. Should be cool though, when it's all assembled as a kit in an easy to carry 4ish RU Rack Bag.

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Re: custom dj mixer enclosure/Tuba45 down fire stands/LED Banner

#30 Post by NukePooch » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:12 pm

SethRocksYou wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:29 pm

I've primarily used my PC for control of either. But, I just got an X-Touch tactile control surface and got it connected wirelessly to the M32C mixer's network with a WiFi Bridge. Gotta say, there is something about having an actual fader/attenuater/slider/(whatever you wanna call it) to touch that is satisfying. It's pretty slick. So far, I'd recommend it too. Although, I literally got it up and running just a few hours ago and have only virtual sound checked/mixed it from a multitrack recording of a past rehearsal.

I also recently purchased a Klark Teknik DM8008 to make wireless IEM deployment and routing a snap. It gets it's signal for 8 assignable line level outputs (perfect for 4 stereo IEM transmitters) through the Ultranet connections, over Cat 5 cable. It's not something I really need. I just got geeked out on the idea of it and sold myself. Should be cool though, when it's all assembled as a kit in an easy to carry 4ish RU Rack Bag.
The DM8008 looks like one of those things that I'll never need...until I absolutely do need it. Makes sense if you've got the mixer far away from the IEM rack. One cable hookup...Nice.

Did you get the full-size X-Touch? I'd been interested in that since it came out. Still haven't laid hands on one, though. I like the size of the Compact (don't need the DAW controls of the full-size), but I'd miss the LCD scribble strips...
Built:
4 Jack 112L- 3012HO, melded array
17.5 wide AutoTuba with Infinity 860w
6 Wedgehorn W6 w/ Panel Mount Piezos
2 T48 Slims (15" wide) with 3012LF
4 T48 Fattys (32" wide) with 3015LF

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