Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

Combining subs, tops and all the rest of your kit.
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Tom Smit
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#31 Post by Tom Smit » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:14 am

Take a look at the J110 vs the J112, and the O12 to get an idea. The Jack won't give you the deep fundamental but it will give you the harmonics and octaves that are more discernible to the ear. I built and owned the predecessor Omni10.5 and found that I wanted more bass, so I think a J112 would be more suitable.
https://billfitzmaurice.info/images/SPL/Jack12/J110.gif
TomS

CarterKraft
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#32 Post by CarterKraft » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:09 am

I was thinking the J112 would be the best compromise.
I am still mulling it over.

I also got to demo the Diamondboxx XL2, it is loud and clean but truthfully underwhelming in overall output.
I was expecting too much of it too it seems. Up close listening it sounds really clean but in SPL mode and at WAR volume it takes on a different note and doesn't have the volume level I expected, there is NO distortion up to that level though.

It seems that is possible to compete with it at a much reduced $.
The challenge is keeping the form factor small.

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#33 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:02 pm

CarterKraft wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:09 am

The challenge is keeping the form factor small.

Hoffman's Iron Law - Low, Loud, Small. Pick two. You can't get all three.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

CarterKraft
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#34 Post by CarterKraft » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:25 pm

So if I go Jack 112 what is the breakdown of drivers/tweeters suggested for music?

I am not worried about difficulty of assembly if that is a factor.

Bruce Weldy
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Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#35 Post by Bruce Weldy » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:29 pm

3012HO and either the piezo array or a CD horn for highs. Either is fine.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Seth
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#36 Post by Seth » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:26 pm

CarterKraft wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:25 pm
So if I go Jack 112 what is the breakdown of drivers/tweeters suggested for music?

I am not worried about difficulty of assembly if that is a factor.
The 3012HO is the premium driver for the Jack 112. If you're going to be using smaller amps like the one in the PE box you built, you won't necessarily "need" the most premium option. But, it's completely up to you. Here's the options mentioned in the plans.


Basic driver - Eminence Beta 12
Upgraded driver - Delta Pro 12
Basic lightweight Neo driver - Eminence Basslite S2012
Upgraded lightweight Neo Driver - Deltalite II 2512
Premium Lightweight Neo Driver - Kappalite 3012HO


The plans have this to say about the listed options; "Response with the Beta 12, 2012 and 2512 is similar, while the lower Qts Delta Pro 12 and 3012HO run about 2dB hotter in the mids. "

Personally, given your intended use, I like the S2012 for it's reduced weight and cost benefit. Although, with limited power, the added sensitivity of the Delta Pro and 3012HO options is an inviting quality as well.



As for the tweeter options, you can use 2x Eminence ASD1001

or a flat piezo array consisting of 8 Goldwood GT-1016 tweeters

or a cross-firing melded piezo array consisting of 16 of the Goldwood 1016 tweeters



How's that for a breakdown? :mrgreen:
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

CarterKraft
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:46 pm

Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#37 Post by CarterKraft » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:17 am

That's a pretty comprehensive breakdown for sure thanks!

The power requirement of the Kappalite isn't a huge problem as there are 400w class D amp boards in the price range that can do it but saving $$$ on the whole project is always welcome.

I like the weight savings of the NEO drivers so that is probably worth the increase alone.

My daughter took the Blast Box to the basketball game last night and the team was underwhlemed with the volume output and switched back to the Old Ion Tailgater. On they bus they thought the blast box was good but out in the open of the gym output dropped.

I think the Jack will handle that db level no problem but the hip hop concerns me about the low end output.
It has to be on par with the TailGater though right?
https://www.walmart.com/ip/iON-Audio-Ta ... AFEALw_wcB

CarterKraft
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#38 Post by CarterKraft » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:19 pm

If I understand it right the CD tweeter setup has more output but is more focused, less dispersion.
For that reason and only going to build one I would think the Piezo or Melded Piezo would be better.

Do you guys have any input on tha?

Bruce Weldy
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#39 Post by Bruce Weldy » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:09 pm

The melded array has a wide dispersion at about 120 degrees....the CD horns are around 90. In situations where the crowd is sitting back from the speakers, the CDs are fine. The melded array really helps when people are close and way off-axis. You won't be disappointed with either. My personal choice is the CD with the better drivers crossed at 1.2k.....but, for recorded music, I'd go with the melded array - it's lighter.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Seth
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Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#40 Post by Seth » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:45 pm

CarterKraft wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:17 am
The power requirement of the Kappalite isn't a huge problem as there are 400w class D amp boards in the price range...
Of the two 400w boards I saw on PE, one is rated 400w @ 10% THD into 1.5 ohms and 294 at 1%THD, also at 1.5 ohms... with a 24volt power source. This amp will likely put out about 55w of clean power into an 8 ohm speaker load.

The other is similarly rated at 400w at 10% THD, 300w at 1% THD, but this one at 3 ohms and a 44 volt power source. This one will likely put out about 110w of clean power into an 8 ohm speaker load.

So, the 3012HO is still a good choice for it's additional sensitivity in the midrange. But, you won't be driving it beyond the capabilities of any of the other drivers with those amps.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

CarterKraft
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:46 pm

Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#41 Post by CarterKraft » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:39 pm

The second one was what I was looking at for a 400w solution and again you are spot on with the 8 ohm rating, I am so used to Car audio where Max is 4 ohms usually I glossed right over that important detail.

I'll keep looking at power options.

Seth
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#42 Post by Seth » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:20 pm

CarterKraft wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:39 pm
The second one was what I was looking at for a 400w solution and again you are spot on with the 8 ohm rating, I am so used to Car audio where Max is 4 ohms usually I glossed right over that important detail.

I'll keep looking at power options.
I wouldn't look too hard... 100w to a Jack 112 will be loud
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

CarterKraft
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:46 pm

Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#43 Post by CarterKraft » Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:21 pm

I am probably going to use this amp for the blast box as the little amp included is not near as clean as I would like and this amp has built in has DSP.
My brother used it in a portable speaker and raves about it.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-au ... p--325-135

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 7567
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#44 Post by Bruce Weldy » Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:46 pm

CarterKraft wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:21 pm
I am probably going to use this amp for the blast box as the little amp included is not near as clean as I would like and this amp has built in has DSP.
My brother used it in a portable speaker and raves about it.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-au ... p--325-135
You have to look past the sales info.....that amp is 100 watts into 2 ohms.....at 8 ohms, it's not nearly enough juice to get the job done.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Seth
Posts: 1571
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Contact:

Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#45 Post by Seth » Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:46 am

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:46 pm
CarterKraft wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:21 pm
I am probably going to use this amp for the blast box as the little amp included is not near as clean as I would like and this amp has built in has DSP.
My brother used it in a portable speaker and raves about it.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-au ... p--325-135
You have to look past the sales info.....that amp is 100 watts into 2 ohms.....at 8 ohms, it's not nearly enough juice to get the job done.
I think he's talking about replacing the amp that his PE Blast Box came with, with that amp.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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