Setup for yearly party

Combining subs, tops and all the rest of your kit.
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rfauske
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:57 pm

Setup for yearly party

#1 Post by rfauske » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:49 am

Hi,

I am new in the forum but see that it had been nice with some help. Every year we have a private party in a local gym (I guess its 25x10meters + scene in one end). In the past we have had mostly home speakers in the range 10" bass + mid + dome tweeter and an amp with around 200 watts or so pr channel.

Main problem is that during the night when the volume increases the sound gets noticably distorted mainly as the mid and tweeters are not holding up. and the sound generaly is a bit straining (bad word ?) to listen to.

That I was originaly thinking was to use 2 x SLA pro (4+4) on the scene a bit toe in and 2 x T45 side by side to the left of one of the SLA pro units.

The room on the end are like this:

Code: Select all

------|
  T45 |
       --------|
      > SLA    |
               |
               |
               |
      > SLA    |
       --------|
      |
------| 
It is around 50 parsipiants and the party is typical dinner + dancing and drinks

jimbo7
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:45 am
Location: St. Louis

Re: Setup for yearly party

#2 Post by jimbo7 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:32 am

Read this: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=398 That will make a world of difference in your sound. Then read a bunch of this: viewforum.php?f=10

You will need proper amps and a means for voltage limiting, crossover, eq, ect.
BFM builds:
XF212
T24 BP102 24"
2x SLA's 6-5" mids, 9- gt-302's
2x AT 14" MCM 55-2421
TrT 5" MCM 55-2421
AT 18" JBL GTO804
2x OT12 flat array
2x SLA Pro 2-Alpha 6's 2-Goldwoods

Grant Bunter
Posts: 6015
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
Contact:

Re: Setup for yearly party

#3 Post by Grant Bunter » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:00 pm

Your home hifi speakers and amp are simply being pushed to hard and you get the result you do.

The 2 x T45's are a good idea for the subs, and, as per the other thread you had, use the 3012lf rather than the lab12 to save a significant bit of weight.

As to SLA Pro: Do some sums. While you don't need a lot of ply for a pair of SLA Pro's, but you need 8 mid drivers.
It may be more cost effective to build 2 x Otop12's, as an example...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans. 2 more under way with CD horn
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

jimbo7
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:45 am
Location: St. Louis

Re: Setup for yearly party

#4 Post by jimbo7 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:31 pm

Grant Bunter wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:00 pm
It may be more cost effective to build 2 x Otop12's, as an example...
Good point. That's why I built my OT12's first, but then I just had to build some SLA Pro 2x :mrgreen: Both sound great but some people might prefer to spend a few extra $ for less pack space.
BFM builds:
XF212
T24 BP102 24"
2x SLA's 6-5" mids, 9- gt-302's
2x AT 14" MCM 55-2421
TrT 5" MCM 55-2421
AT 18" JBL GTO804
2x OT12 flat array
2x SLA Pro 2-Alpha 6's 2-Goldwoods

rfauske
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:57 pm

Re: Setup for yearly party

#5 Post by rfauske » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:44 pm

Pack space is an issue, I will be storing them in the attic and the opening is only 20*28" or so. That's why I am thinking two slim t45 with the 3012lf and two stock SLA pro. Instead of wider but shorter cabs

But in regard to the omnitop 12, will that not need a bit more eq to match the t45 in the bottom end, thinking about crossover at 100hz or so ? And will I gain more then a lower price using them ?

Grant Bunter
Posts: 6015
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
Contact:

Re: Setup for yearly party

#6 Post by Grant Bunter » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:36 pm

rfauske wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:44 pm
Pack space is an issue, I will be storing them in the attic and the opening is only 20*28" or so. That's why I am thinking two slim t45 with the 3012lf and two stock SLA pro. Instead of wider but shorter cabs

But in regard to the omnitop 12, will that not need a bit more eq to match the t45 in the bottom end, thinking about crossover at 100hz or so ? And will I gain more then a lower price using them ?
The choice of SLA Pro's then, given your pack space, makes sense now.

As for Otop12 Vs SLA Pro, check out the charts:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14052

The very first charts shows that the Otop12 has around 3-4dB higher average sensitivity, so it's noticeably louder.

While it does say in the SLA Pro SPL chart section you could get away without using EQ with them, that's probably not an attitude you want when running Pro sound.
Even for a small rig for parties, I think you should always consider EQ as mandatory.
Since EQ is part of the DBX driverack unit, and you always need a limiter for your subs (also mandatory), it's not like you need to pay more to have EQ.

It wouldn't take a whole lot of EQ tweaking to sort out a pair of Otops...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans. 2 more under way with CD horn
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

rfauske
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:57 pm

Re: Setup for yearly party

#7 Post by rfauske » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:20 am

Did some calculations and price vs work will not be that bad for the SLA Pro so I guess I will end up with that because of an easier design and smaller things to move.

The source will be a laptop with spotify or something like that.

Thinking that maybe a minidsp balanced board (2x4) in combination with remote volume control and a t.amp E4-700 could be an simple setup to start with. EQ + Crossover in the minidsp and audio limiter in the amp. This amp is 4 x 490W in 8ohm so if I think correctly it should be ok ?

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6513
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Setup for yearly party

#8 Post by Bruce Weldy » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:05 am

rfauske wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:20 am
a t.amp E4-700 audio limiter in the amp.
Nope. That amp does not have the proper limiting abilities. It only limits current that could harm it - not your speakers. The dead giveaway is that there is no screen where you could control the limiting to match your speakers.

You need a driverack. This is not home stereo - you are moving into pro sound and need to have the proper tools. Horn loaded subs will not distort and bark at you like your current setup does. Because they filter out the harmonic distortion that you hear with direct radiators like you are using, you'll never hear them getting close to failure until they make no sound at all.

Pick up a used Driverack PA, PA+, or PX - they will all do the job and they are plentiful and reasonably cheap in the used market. I own several and have never bought one new.....and never had one fail.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

rfauske
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:57 pm

Re: Setup for yearly party

#9 Post by rfauske » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:19 am

Thanks, I will have a look :)

As far as I can see the minidsp can also be used as a limiter with the advanced plugin so I guess that should cover the features I need. Just need to mount it in a 1u rack case so it has no 'loose wires'

jimbo7
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:45 am
Location: St. Louis

Re: Setup for yearly party

#10 Post by jimbo7 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:59 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:05 am
rfauske wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:20 am
a t.amp E4-700 audio limiter in the amp.
Nope. That amp does not have the proper limiting abilities.....
Isn't that what the MiniDSP is for he mentioned? Never messed with one, but I assume it'll the the same as a driverack.
BFM builds:
XF212
T24 BP102 24"
2x SLA's 6-5" mids, 9- gt-302's
2x AT 14" MCM 55-2421
TrT 5" MCM 55-2421
AT 18" JBL GTO804
2x OT12 flat array
2x SLA Pro 2-Alpha 6's 2-Goldwoods

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6513
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Setup for yearly party

#11 Post by Bruce Weldy » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:23 pm

jimbo7 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:59 pm
Bruce Weldy wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:05 am
rfauske wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:20 am
a t.amp E4-700 audio limiter in the amp.
Nope. That amp does not have the proper limiting abilities.....
Isn't that what the MiniDSP is for he mentioned? Never messed with one, but I assume it'll the the same as a driverack.
I have no idea what is available with those units, but I'm sure it's not universal - different ones do different things. Don't know that anyone's ever mentioned limiting since they are usually only used in home theater setups.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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