Questions about the XF412

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bottcm12
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Questions about the XF412

#1 Post by bottcm12 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:17 am

My uncle built his own XF212 out of solid mahogany and turned me on to your website. I am looking at building your XF412, but  I was hoping to get a couple pictures and maybe the general cabinet dimensions, so that I can get a better idea of what the cabinet looks like and get an idea of the size as I cannot find this info online anywhere. 
I'm hoping that the cabinet is not the same width as standard 4x12 cabinets as I use a lunchbox sized Mesa Boogie head and mu car is too small for the standard 2x12. I'm hoping to keep the width within 23 inches, but because of this size, I may end up having to build a vertical 2x12 cabinet instead.

If the cabinet isn't that small, do you think that tilting the speakers more to fit them would be a bad idea?

Thanks!

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Tom Smit
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Re: Questions about the XF412

#2 Post by Tom Smit » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:32 am

Hi, and welcome to the forum!

If you look on the sales page of the XF cabs, you can see that there is extra baffle width beside the drivers. This indicates that the cab will be wider than 2 x 12", More like 27".

Why do you want a 4x12? A PA would be better for dispersion for the audience. (Sorry, that appears a little harsh, but I mention it to inform.)
TomS

bottcm12
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Re: Questions about the XF412

#3 Post by bottcm12 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:27 am

What do you mean when you say PA?

I'm looking for a cabinet that is taller, so that my head will be higher as I normally play standing. There was no specific reason for the 4x12 other than I need the cabinet to be taller than the standard xf212.

I'm beginning to think that a slanted top vertical 2x12 cabinet may be best for my needs.

bottcm12
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Re: Questions about the XF412

#4 Post by bottcm12 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:51 am

Oh, did you just mean micing the cabinet?

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Questions about the XF412

#5 Post by Bruce Weldy » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:55 am

bottcm12 wrote:What do you mean when you say PA?

I'm looking for a cabinet that is taller, so that my head will be higher as I normally play standing. There was no specific reason for the 4x12 other than I need the cabinet to be taller than the standard xf212.

I'm beginning to think that a slanted top vertical 2x12 cabinet may be best for my needs.
Certainly, a vertical arrangement is best for dispersion if using two speakers. However, with that size amp (I play a Boogie Mark IV-25 which is also small), why not just use a single 12 cab on a stand? I've never needed more than a single 12 with 25 watts to play just about anywhere without PA support.

Am I guessing right that you were kidding when you said....What do you mean when you say PA?

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

bottcm12
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Re: Questions about the XF412

#6 Post by bottcm12 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:36 pm

I currently have a 23 inch 1x12 cabinet that juse doesn't have the punch and presence that I'm really looking for. I was hoping the doubled voicing of a 2x12 and better speakers would give more life and better cut to the setup.

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Charles Jenkinson
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Re: Questions about the XF412

#7 Post by Charles Jenkinson » Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:53 pm

bottcm12 wrote:I currently have a 23 inch 1x12 cabinet that juse doesn't have the punch and presence that I'm really looking for. I was hoping the doubled voicing of a 2x12 and better speakers would give more life and better cut to the setup.
What is your current cab and driver? Open/closed back? It's a bit of a minefield this one, especially for tone freaks, but it could be something obvious.
2xJ12L (3012HO) switchable/melded (http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=18773)
2xT30 : http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=20386

No sound is better than bad sound.

bottcm12
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Re: Questions about the XF412

#8 Post by bottcm12 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:12 am

It's a 23 inch Mesa Transatlantic cab with a celestion black shadow

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Questions about the XF412

#9 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:07 pm

bottcm12 wrote:celestion black shadow
It's impossible to get specs on that, as it's an OEM only speaker made for Mesa, but supposedly it's close to the EVM-12L. That means very high sensitivity and long, for a guitar driver, xmax. That will make it loud, but not a tone machine, not a Greenback by any means. Where tone is concerned short xmax, 1mm or less, allows the driver and amp to be pushed hard without being stupid loud.

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Re: Questions about the XF412

#10 Post by bottcm12 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:20 pm

In other words, you guys believe that my problem with cutting the mix should be more the speaker than the amount of speakers.

I was also hoping that the slant would help with being able to hear myself better on stage without being too loud.

Also, I've heard of people having grounding problems by not sitting your amp/cabinet on the floor. This shouldn't be a problem as my amp is newer and well grounded right?

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Questions about the XF412

#11 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:43 pm

bottcm12 wrote: I was also hoping that the slant would help with being able to hear myself better on stage without being too loud.
It will. A speaker beams above where the cone diameter is one wavelength, with the dispersion shrinking the higher you go. A twelve inch driver with a ten inch diameter cone beams above roughly 1300Hz. Hearing anything from it above 3kHz is just about impossible if it's not aimed towards you.
Also, I've heard of people having grounding problems by not sitting your amp/cabinet on the floor. This shouldn't be a problem as my amp is newer and well grounded right?
Grounding is an electrical issue, it has nothing to do with placement. This is one of the more whacko notions I've heard, a first in fact, but guitar players, and for that matter musicians in general, tend not to be the most technically oriented. I guess that's what keeps the techies in business. :?

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Re: Questions about the XF412

#12 Post by Bruce Weldy » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:31 pm

bottcm12 wrote:In other words, you guys believe that my problem with cutting the mix should be more the speaker than the amount of speakers.

I was also hoping that the slant would help with being able to hear myself better on stage without being too loud.
?

Adding more speakers will not help clarity at all.

You may not need to change anything at all. If your cabinet is sitting on the ground, then honestly you have absolutely no idea what it sounds like out front. While you think it isn't cutting through, most likely it's cutting right through the eardrums of the people in front. Place it off the ground (at least on a chair if not a stand) as far behind you as you can - this will allow you to hear everything that's coming out of the speaker.

You may not need to do anything. That amp though a Mesa 12 ought to be very clean on a clean setting and the break up nicely when over driven with only 15 watts. Try varying the placement first and work with the EQ. You might save a bunch of money.

If that's still not what you want, then consider changing speakers - but, moving away from that driver to a lower wattage one will only serve to add more break up and less clarity.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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