melded or compression

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CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: melded or compression

#16 Post by CoronaOperator » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:33 am

tvent wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:21 pm
You guys that are mixing CD's and Melded arrays in your stack - do you power them with separate amp channels in order to be able to EQ them separately?
When I run my DR's stacked I like to run them on separate amp channels even though they are both CD's. That way I can run the top boxes louder with a bit more hf energy than the bottom ones. It really evens out the spl level and hf energy level throughout the room.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

tvent
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Helena, AR

Re: melded or compression

#17 Post by tvent » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:57 pm

CoronaOperator wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:29 am
I don't think the physical length of the hf horn is long enough to support a lower x-over point on the DR250. FYI there is nothing wrong with the asd1001 in the dr250, a little eq and they sound fantastic. I have yet to hear a better sounding commercial cab.
That's good information to have CoronaOperator... and something I am happy to hear since, for 4 cabs the NSD's will be approaching $1,000, whereas the ASD's come in at just under $300.
(that being said, if I do melded in 2, then the HF driver investment is even half of that.)

Thanks,
Tim
Built:
4 x WH10 melded
4 x WH8 melded
2 x Jack15 melded
2 x Simplex 12 w/BGH-25 for Bass
1 x Simplex Tiltback (powered PPA800DSP) for Keys
2 x SLA Pro
Bought:
6 x T39 20" 3012LF loaded

tvent
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:29 pm
Location: Helena, AR

Re: melded or compression

#18 Post by tvent » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:02 pm

CoronaOperator wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:33 am
When I run my DR's stacked I like to run them on separate amp channels even though they are both CD's. That way I can run the top boxes louder with a bit more hf energy than the bottom ones. It really evens out the spl level and hf energy level throughout the room.
Hadn't thought of that. That sounds like a good practice.
I initially would have just paralleled the 2 cabinets on either side - but this way I can parallel the top-top cabinets from each side on 1 channel, then parallel the lower-top cabinets on the other channel... giving up Stereo for more balanced volume throughout the space and still using on a single amplifier for the tops. I imagine if I'm in a venue that is requiring all 4 DR250's I probably don't want stereo to start with so I'm fine with that.

Thanks again!
Built:
4 x WH10 melded
4 x WH8 melded
2 x Jack15 melded
2 x Simplex 12 w/BGH-25 for Bass
1 x Simplex Tiltback (powered PPA800DSP) for Keys
2 x SLA Pro
Bought:
6 x T39 20" 3012LF loaded

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: melded or compression

#19 Post by CoronaOperator » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:17 pm

repost
Last edited by CoronaOperator on Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: melded or compression

#20 Post by CoronaOperator » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:19 pm

CoronaOperator wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:17 pm
tvent wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:02 pm
Hadn't thought of that. That sounds like a good practice.
It's called power shading, here is a video I made showing it in practice:

Just a crappy cell phone video but you can see how even the SPL levels are. This way you don't take the heads off of the folks right up front.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6807
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: melded or compression

#21 Post by Bruce Weldy » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:01 pm

tvent wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:02 pm

Hadn't thought of that. That sounds like a good practice.
I initially would have just paralleled the 2 cabinets on either side - but this way I can parallel the top-top cabinets from each side on 1 channel, then parallel the lower-top cabinets on the other channel... giving up Stereo for more balanced volume throughout the space and still using on a single amplifier for the tops. I imagine if I'm in a venue that is requiring all 4 DR250's I probably don't want stereo to start with so I'm fine with that.

Thanks again!
I've found the the NSD's output is higher than the Melded, so the power shading is kinda' built in by putting the melded on the bottom. When I check my boxes during sound check - the CD in the top box is really evident, but I put my ear up close to the melded to make sure it's cooking.

It's an unintended bonus.....saving time and amp channels.

And mono is always my choice in live sound.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

ACUA
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:21 pm

Re: melded or compression

#22 Post by ACUA » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:49 pm

I would like to breath new life into this thread if I may. I am gearing up to build additional Otop12s cabs. looks like a pair of omnitop 212 cabs at the moment. this will give me effectively 4 per side.

In this thread I see people mixing melded arrays and cd horns. I am surprised, as this must yield some negative effects somewhere I would think. My current rig is four T45subs and four seperate otop12s with cd horns tri-amped with a driverack, I like it that way but, like many of you, I wanna tinker with things. I have a desire to build a melded array and see what it sounds like. I realize that in no context is it recommended to bi-amp a melded array, so...

I like the idea (if the drawbacks are minimal) of putting passive filters into my current and future otop12s, put the proposed new 212 cabs on the bottom of my stack with a fancy melded array in each. Then stack the other two otop12/cd horn cabs on top of the dual otop/melded array cabs.

I would then change the amp configuration from the bi-amped mids and highs, to using the two amps for gain separation between the lower cabs and the higher cabs, like as has been discussed in this thread, for better coverage and mitigation of cutting peoples heads off up close!!! I would get to try out a melded array and not have to throw out my current cd horns. I am pretty sure the drive rack will allow me to configure the output to two sub outs and four full range outs.

I can pick up the (more than forty eight) GT-1016 piezos including the filter hardware for a dollar less than four ASD1001 horn drivers, makes me wanna do it. I could evaluate the difference between the melded array and the cd horns and down the road potentially convert the other half of the rig to which ever I like more!!!
Advanced concepts underground audio

ACUA
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:21 pm

Re: melded or compression

#23 Post by ACUA » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:51 pm

I don't see it in the plans but is the filter/xover the same for a single melded array of 12piezos as it is for a double cab with 24 units? Thank you in advance.
Advanced concepts underground audio

ACUA
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:21 pm

Re: melded or compression

#24 Post by ACUA » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:05 pm

wow, my mistake I forgot to calculate the cost to filter the low frequency end of the cab in my estimated expenses above. it will cost a lot more to include the cost of the whole passive filter of Omnitop 12 cabs than the cost of just the needed cd horns ran active.
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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: melded or compression

#25 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:27 pm

I doubt that the cost of the passive approaches the cost of another amplifier channel.

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Tom Smit
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Re: melded or compression

#26 Post by Tom Smit » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:39 pm

The advantage of the melded piezos is the wide coverage versus the CD, or any other cab for that matter.

Reading your projected plan, I was thinking that it would serve best to put one melded 1x12 on the bottom, and CDs for all the cabs on top.
TomS

ACUA
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Re: melded or compression

#27 Post by ACUA » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:43 pm

Always a pleasure when you chime in, that’s true I was thinking of setting the wiring up of the otop stacks in a series parallel way to get me a 8ohm nominal. Playing with the idea in my head makes a wiring nightmare if I try that and still run active tri-amp. But I think maybe I will build a snake/ bread board of sorts to drop behind each stack of speakers and sort the series/parallel out in the box and it will be like a snake in the sense that it will have inputs and out but in NL4 fashion labeled to let me know what is what that way I can set up the rig in different ways fewer cabs or whatever.

Building dual otops is still going to cost me a lot, $500 just for the delta pro drivers.
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ACUA
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Re: melded or compression

#28 Post by ACUA » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:45 pm

Tom Smit wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:39 pm
The advantage of the melded piezos is the wide coverage versus the CD, or any other cab for that matter.

Reading your projected plan, I was thinking that it would serve best to put one melded 1x12 on the bottom, and CDs for all the cabs on top.
You know that could work for me!!! I will consider it!
Advanced concepts underground audio

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