Need some advice...

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chunkylover73
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:44 am
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

Need some advice...

#1 Post by chunkylover73 »

Greetings from the frigid north atlantic. I play bass in a classic rock band that gigs maybe once or twice a month (if we're lucky). Right now our PA system consists of a Mackie CFX16 MKII mixer, a Yorkville AP4040 amp, and a couple of ancient Yorkville 215 speakers. We use IEM through a separate monitor mixer. The speakers are okay, but they weigh a freaking ton, plus we're not getting enough low end because we don't have any subwoofers. We usually play in small to medium sized clubs, with an audience size ranging from 2-3 to maybe 50 on a good night. My woodworking skills are okay, I have no problems using powertools but I can't do anything fancy.

We're looking at getting rid of the speakers and replacing them with something lighter and better. Plus we also need to add a couple of subwoofers. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a million.
Built:
2 x T39 14" BP102
2 x OTop 12
Jack 12 3012HO
XF210

www.yytrocks.com

wallywally
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Location: Mount Airy, MD
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Re: Need some advice...

#2 Post by wallywally »

2 OT12's and 2 t-39's is what I'd build in your situation. You'll also need to buy a X-over. Your sound will be so much better you 'll probably start scoring larger gigs.
Builds:
T-39
DR 280
Wedgehorn 8
Omni 12
SLA
TAT
TLAH experimental

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Tim A
Posts: 3666
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: SE Michigan, Licensed BF Builder

Re: Need some advice...

#3 Post by Tim A »

chunkylover73 wrote: We're looking at getting rid of the speakers and replacing them with something lighter and better...any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Any of them, choose freely!

Limited woodworking skills = Omnitop 12's. Better woodworking skills = DR200. Either will handle up to 3X your audience size.
chunkylover73 wrote:Plus we also need to add a couple of subwoofers.
Not for that size audience, one sub will be plenty. If you never plan on getting bigger, build one of the 'new' Omni 12 subs reveiwed here:

http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =13&t=6957

If you want something to handle bigger audiences, build a pair of Titan 39's, anything from 14"-24" wide depending on your pack/setup/storage space.

Since you think you need two subs, I'm assuming you want to put one on each side of the stage. PLEASE make sure you read this, as that's the wrong way to do it.

http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ?f=1&t=398

Sydney

Re: Need some advice...

#4 Post by Sydney »

I get confused with all the variety of Omni models...
I wondered if the Omni 12 Fullrange was a good fit? or too much?

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Tim A
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Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:23 pm
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Re: Need some advice...

#5 Post by Tim A »

Yeah, me too. I lobbied for a different name for the OTops when they first came out.

O12 fullrange would probably be a good fit, but I view them as a compromise for PA setups. While it's true they'll go low enough to use sub frequencies, you need to separate them for the mids/highs. That puts you back to square one with separated subs. For PA use, tops/subs just make more sense. You can build the Omni12 sub or the Titan with a built-in passive crossover for use in low-power situations and either will work very well.

Sydney

Re: Need some advice...

#6 Post by Sydney »

I thought perhaps that chunkylover73 ( the bigger the cushion, then better the ...? )
was describing a situation that could be taken care of with 2 cabs - "maybe 50 on a good night"
I haven't heard the Yorkville 215 to compare - the sales page on the Omni Full range 12 w the comparison to the EV Eliminator and Eon's ( which I'm familar with ) led to think it might be a good 2 box solution.
Small room, but the fact that it is "classic rock" make subs a necessity?
I know there are many who want only 2 cabs. They play in the same sort of small room and place only a little bass load on the cabs ( room gain and all that ).

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Tim A
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Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: SE Michigan, Licensed BF Builder

Re: Need some advice...

#7 Post by Tim A »

Sydney wrote: Small room, but the fact that it is "classic rock" make subs a necessity?
No, but he said he wanted them. The fact that they're not getting enough bass through their 2-15's leads me to believe that one reason is probably cancellation, so I'm not going to recommend something that will duplicate the problem. We play to small audiences all the time, the difference in adding kick through a sub, even in small amounts, is substantial. I'd much rather carry a single sub and a pair of 35lb tops than two heavier cabs, especially since the pack space between an Omni 12 sub/2 Otop 12s and a pair of Omni 12 fullrange is less than 1cuft. And since he wanted something lighter, I'd also not recommend a 60lb. cabinet that needs to be put on a stand.

chunkylover73
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:44 am
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

Re: Need some advice...

#8 Post by chunkylover73 »

Thanks a million for all the help. You'll have to excuse my complete ignorance of all things sound related. I've learned more in the past couple of days from reading the forums than I have in the past ten years. A couple of Omni top 12 speakers would definitely work out. The size is right, the level of difficulty is right, and the cool factor is right.

I'm not 100% sure about the sub issue. If I'm reading it right, depending on the size of the gig only one sub may be necessary. I like the fact that the Omni-12 is smaller and more portable, but the Titan 39 would be more suitable for bigger gigs. I'm just wondering where is the sub best placed? Tim, I was looking at some pics on your website and I was trying to see where you place yours but I couldn't make it out. Anyways, thanks again for all the help. I can't wait to start sawing, gluing, cursing and swearing.
Built:
2 x T39 14" BP102
2 x OTop 12
Jack 12 3012HO
XF210

www.yytrocks.com

Sydney

Re: Need some advice...

#9 Post by Sydney »

Tim raises some good points and considerations; I wasn't trying to jack this thread or argue w Tim. I was ( like you ) trying to get a better idea of when to go sub,
Recently was part of a benefit held in a prefab metal building like this in width and height:
Image
Just 2x - 3x as long with attached entrance.
The system Tim recommended would have been more then enough for the space, the crowd was only 50 but you could have fit hundreds in it. Being made of metal it was reverberant.
The musicians that played ranged from a 2 piece ( girl & guy w a resonator guitar ), a very young Black Sabath-esque band, a 2 guy 2 girl vocal group w light acoustic guitar and some keyboard, and a 6 piece blues/rock band. I'm trying to build a mental performance matrix of what would work, for whom, under what circumstances, etc.
I think the desire to have a bit more bass ( the kick ) that Tim mentioned might by the key to when the sub is a better path

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Tim A
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Re: Need some advice...

#10 Post by Tim A »

chunkylover73 wrote:I'm not 100% sure about the sub issue. If I'm reading it right, depending on the size of the gig only one sub may be necessary. I like the fact that the Omni-12 is smaller and more portable, but the Titan 39 would be more suitable for bigger gigs. I'm just wondering where is the sub best placed? Tim, I was looking at some pics on your website and I was trying to see where you place yours but I couldn't make it out. Anyways, thanks again for all the help. I can't wait to start sawing, gluing, cursing and swearing.
If you have the pack space and setup space, a single 24" Titan 39 with a 12LF driver, (or wait for the new 3012LF) will easily handle these rooms. Build a second one and keep it on-hand for larger rooms or outside. A pair of these and a pair of OTop 12's will be a good match.

I ALWAYS wall load when I can. I corner load if necessary. Out in the open is a last resort.

I install a pole mount in the top of one sub and use it in lieu of a stand for small rooms. The other mid/top goes on a stand.

Outdoors or for larger rooms the subs get stacked and/or V plated, with each set of mid tops going on stands.

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