Welfare PA project

[mcstewart]

Hey all,

Long time listener, first time caller. I have been pouring over this forum like some kind of sacred audio text for some time now and I really appreciate all the technical info and am still amazed at the pics of the fantastic craftsmanship. I am in awe. I need some advice. I am building a "welfare" PA rig intended mostly for my own enjoyment with the possibility of playing out at very small venues (i.e. coffee houses etc...) I am not a professional musician so I don't want to sink a small fortune into this endevour. I still want to build a quality system that will easiley surpass the performance of say JBL Ion or Fender Passport without incurring the wrath of the boss. My plan is to build a couple of omni 10.5's using the MCM 55-1740 (hence the name "welfare"). Has anybody actually used these? Also I need something for the bottom end. Can I run just one sub? I am thinking Tuba 24 (want to keep it small). I know Bill says that subs like alot of company but will just one Tuba 24 work or will I need at least two?

Any advice would be very appreciated.

Thanks - Mark

[SoundInMotionDJ]

For a coffee house, I would look at a pair of SLA's, and a pair of T18's. For $250-ish in drivers, wood, and hardware you would have a killer setup for small rooms. The best part is that if you ever want to upgrade the rig - it could easily move in as your new home theater system.

The smallest 1U amp you can find will be more than enough to kick butt over a passport system. Given the light demands, even the American Audio VLP-300 would be overkill - that amp is available for $175.

--Stan Graves

[Mikey]

Mark, there are a few more things you could tell us which would allow us to better help you...

What other PA gear do you intend to use with these speakers? For instance, do you just want to use a small powered mixer or do you have a rack of good pro gear?

What type of music do you intend to run through your system?

Live or recorded music?

If live, will it be a solo act, or full band?

[Tim A]

For most coffee house gigs, one top with a melded array is plenty.

BTW, the MCM driver isn't recommended in the O10.

[Harley]

My plan is to build a couple of omni 10.5's using the MCM 55-1740

Don't!

Eminence DLII2510 are the ticket, more so than the BP102 if you like a nice warm/rich sounding bass. Break them in 24 hrs before use or gig with them for that time before making your final evaluation,

[Harley]

My plan is to build a couple of omni 10.5's using the MCM 55-1740

Don't!

Eminence DLII2510 are the ticket, more so than the BP102 if you like a nice warm/rich sounding bass. Break them in 24 hrs before use or gig with them for that time before making your final evaluation.

I promise you that you will not be disappointed.

[LelandCrooks]

HELP!

Damn - something's gone really screwy and my edits have all ended up posting.

I can't delete the other posts!

Leland/Mark, can you zap all but the last post please

Not me mate, I surrendered my authority.

Now you must respect Mark's

[Tim A]

I like the sunglasses, but Mark, seriously, for your own health, you need to lose some weight....

[DJPhatman]

I like the sunglasses, but Mark, seriously, for your own health, you need to lose some weight....

Hey, I resemble that remark!!!!

[mcstewart]

Thanks guys for your input.

I really like your idea Stan, going with the SLA and Tuba 18's. This thing will mostly stay in the house and I like the idea of using it for HT apps if I want to move up to something bigger. I like the price point as well.

Mikey, this would be for synth pop midi band (read me and my comp) so sub's are a really important element. I will be powering this with a small 1U amp. What small crossover would you recommend?

I know, I know, why waste the time and effort putting the cabs together and putting crap drivers in them. While cost is a big factor, I also like the idea of getting alot for less. Who would have ever thought that lowly piezos worked so well in Bill's designs?

Maybe I have an old copy of the Omni 10 plans but it does state: "an alternative woofer for tight budgets is the MCM 55-1740 which is similar to the Beta 10". That's the only reason I mentioned the MCM.

Thanks for all your help. I am starting to get geeked to put this together.

Mark

[SoundInMotionDJ]

I really like your idea Stan, going with the SLA and Tuba 18's. This thing will mostly stay in the house and I like the idea of using it for HT apps if I want to move up to something bigger. I like the price point as well.

Woohoo! I got a question right!

Seriously, a coffee house system really is a home theater style application - you do not need pro audio level cabinets.

What small crossover would you recommend?

The SLA plans include a passive crossover for use with the T18. Given the power demands you are dealing with, passive will be fine.

If you are serious about things, then the Berhinger DCX2496 is the only crossover to consider. For $250-ish it will provide room for your to grow into it for years. Yes, yes, yes, you could get something that is only a crossover for $100...but don't bother. Go passive, or get the DCX2496. Never look back.

--Stan Graves

[Mikey]

this would be for synth pop midi band (read me and my comp) so sub's are a really important element.

You might consider the new refolded AT. It has more bass extension than the T18, and also has more mouth area. It uses the same inexpensive MCM 8" driver as the T18.

[Rick Lee]

IF you don't go w/ a passive xover you might want to consider one of the Behringer 31 band eq's (FBQ3102). I bought one on fleeBay for $20 bucks and it has a sub out AND a high pass filter. It actually sounds pretty nice. I wouldn't use it for large scale work but I've used it a couple of times to plug our T48s into the provided house system.

[Frankenspeakers]

+1 or 5 on the NAT (Nimrod's AT) you can make 'em w/o the cupholders... and the MCM8 can get brutal in a pack of 4 (what I would recommend for what you want) You could use the 1740 in some O10's as a stepping stone to some 2510's if you must (ducks and runs from the inevitable dogpile of outraged sensabilities) the SLA's or better yet, Pro TLAH's would be a good compromise. Just sumpthin to thimk about...

[Mikey]

A "welfare system" is doable, but I think you may be trying to stretch things a bit too far. Using inexpensive drivers, you''ll be able to build some kick-ass speakers for dirt cheap, but you'll need decent pro gear to control them properly, otherwise you'll be taking a crap-shoot, with the definate possibility that the system could sound like ass, even though the speakers are good.

A pair of Nid ATs with MCM8 drivers will be plenty for your needs. If you go with a pair of SLAs, using four of the recommended Goldwood drivers (PE # 290-373) and four 1016 piezos per cab, that should also be adequate. Cool, subs and mains for dirt cheap.

I completely disagree with using passive crossovers, because you'd be locked-in to a frequency and slope which, in all likelihood, will be far less than optimal. Inexpensive active crossovers have many shortcomings, least of which is often poor reliability. Stan's advice to use the Berhinger DCX2496 is probably your best bet. It aint exactly "welfare", but it's a lot of bang-for-the-buck, and it will make a huge difference in getting the optimum sound from your speakers. It's cool that you can build your speakers on the cheap, but do you want the system to sound DIY or do you want it to sound GOOD, so that you can be proud of the speakers you built and your great sounding performances? IMO, going cheap here would be a bad move. After going through all of the trouble to build these speakers, how would you feel if someone came up to you after a gig and said, "Your songs and performance were great. It's really a shame the sound wasn't very good"? What if that was the guy who decides whether you work there again or not? What if that was a guy who would have thrown you work at other venues if you sounded better?