Hello everyone! Ready to give me your input?

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REDLINE
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Hello everyone! Ready to give me your input?

#1 Post by REDLINE »

I guess the first thing to do is give you guys a little background info on me. I'm a 20 year old college student in Chicago, IL. I've been a mobile DJ since about sophomore year of high school. Up until this point, I had only done local birthday/house parties for high school kids. Now that i'm older, I decided to step up my game. I talked to my old high school about doing homecomings/proms, and they thought it was a great idea. I bought some new Yamaha Club V series speakers, and they sound great. But as I expected, the bass isn't as loud as i'd like it. As you know, all the kids these days love lots and lots of bass. So my plan is to build a few subs to use with my current setup, and then some of Bill's DR speakers down the road. Now i'm not a big guy, so the size of these subs can't be that big. I do have a partner that I work with, but he is actually weaker than me, so he's not much help. After reading around the forums, it seems the Tubas are the choice for recorded music, but other people on djforums.com have said I could build Titans that would outperform the Tubas, and fit in a car better. If i'm doing proms in banquet halls and homecomings in gyms (3 basketball courts wide), what subs should I use, and how many would you recommend? I plan on using 4 Yamaha S115Vs as my speakers, and figured I could get by with 2 Tubas or Titans. Then again, i'm new to all of this so that's why i'm asking the experts.

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davygrvy
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#2 Post by davygrvy »

Hello and welcome to the forum,

Bass needs space, physics is unforgiving.

People are going to give me flack for this and they have every right to. You might consider a stack of four AutoTubas. They're small 14"x15"x32" and I think they pack a wallop when stacked in a group. I can fit three in my little Korean hatchback. Their response is for 40Hz, but the stacking improves extension and sensitivity, to what exactly, there are no charts.

Or there is the slim Titan39 (13" wide I think), which you'd need four to get a good response, which is just a little larger than the AT, but should be more sensitive and you can extend the low-end using a V-plate.

Sydney

No free lunch

#3 Post by Sydney »

so the size of these subs can't be that big.

One one the most practical pieces of advise that is repeated given is to quickly/simply construct a cardboard box of sizes ( such as 24"x24"x16" for a small T24 ) to give you a real feel of what you will be dealing with.
The bottom octave is nice but because of what you said: Go for something that is optimized for 40hz and above like 2 T39, Dave's multi AT has possibilities too. - Most won't be aware of the missing octave.
If you want/need the bottom octave loud- 2 of the smallest cabs is not going to get it.

BTW: Be prepared for a lot of pressure on replacing those Yamaha's

* HEY DAVYGRVY - what does one of those AT weigh?
Last edited by Sydney on Thu May 15, 2008 5:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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SoundInMotionDJ
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Re: Hello everyone! Ready to give me your input?

#4 Post by SoundInMotionDJ »

REDLINE wrote:If i'm doing proms in banquet halls and homecomings in gyms (3 basketball courts wide), what subs should I use, and how many would you recommend? I plan on using 4 Yamaha S115Vs as my speakers, and figured I could get by with 2 Tubas or Titans. Then again, i'm new to all of this so that's why i'm asking the experts.
For a space the size of a gym, two of any design will probably not give you "impressive" amounts of bass.

To use with four S115's, I would start with either four T39 or four T30. The T39 wins on sensitivity, which until proven otherwise, which should make it the winner for your application. Low end extension is nice....but the harsh reality is that sensitivity is probably a better investment with a limited cabinet count.

But, to start, mock up a T39 and determine how large you can make it and still pack two of them. Then build to that size.

Then, as you can afford more cabinets and more pack space, build more cabinets. To really fill the gym with "club level" sound, I'd want 8 tops and 8 subs.

--Stan Graves
10 T39S + 10 DR200 + 1 T48

gdougherty
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#5 Post by gdougherty »

As I recall, the DJ's were looking more toward the T48's. I've done a single court gym and large auditoriums with just a pair of T48's. The 4 OT12's I have would easily beat out the Yamaha tops and the subs kept up decently.

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davygrvy
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Re: No free lunch

#6 Post by davygrvy »

Sydney wrote:* HEY DAVYGRVY - what does one of those AT weigh?
48 pounds with an HL10c done with the old 16" wide/tall dimensions. It wasn't baltic birch, some Chinese import 7-ply birch. So probably add 5 pounds for BB.

I still think four slim T39s for ease of load vs 2 bigger cabs.


I think my theme is "lots of little ones" for all answers I make ;)

Mikey
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#7 Post by Mikey »

REDLINE wrote:people on djforums.com have said I could build Titans that would outperform the Tubas, and fit in a car better
That depends what car you're putting them in and which Tuba(s) or Titan(s) you're trying to fit in it. Are you contemplating hauling your entire rig in a passenger car?

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Frankenspeakers
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#8 Post by Frankenspeakers »

Hi, Welcome aboard...
Most Kids won't miss the bottom octive but your back will appreciate the smaller cabinets (any of the suggested BFM designs are so far ahead of the curve that any path you choose will destroy the competition). Dave ain't kiddin' about a stack of AT's been there-heard that, ima believuh. either HL10's or Titanics will work well DJing is one job I am reluctant to use the MCM 8's in. Plus, it will be fun looking at the jawbones hitting the floor when you tell'em that you did'nt shoehorn 18's into your horns. :wink:

Now the hardest part of the assignment is (like previous suggestions): Get lots of cardboard, a boxcutter and a couple rolls of el-cheapo masking tape and make some AT or T39/48 sized boxes to see how the setup will look in the car and at some of your venues; the loadin-out will help make up your mind. AT's are an easy carry, T39's easy too, T48's will need the built-in wheels.

Now Git'er done :lol:
There is no technical problem however complex, that cannot be solved or finessed by a direct application of brute strength and ignorance.

"Gimme the hammer... Naaaw not that one, the freakin' big one- I'll MAKE it fit!"

REDLINE
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#9 Post by REDLINE »

I can see that having 4 smaller subs would be more beneficial, but that's not what i'm looking for. I would prefer to have 2 bigger subs than 4 smaller ones. I guess saying that i'm pretty small gave the wrong impression. If I built some Titans or Tubas, I could easily incorporate some wheels onto them. It wouldn't take much effort to load them in and out of my car and wheel them the rest of the way (or use my hand-truck). I can easily lift 75 lbs by myself into the trunk, and with a partner to help me lift (even though he's a weakling), we could easily get something 100+ lbs into the car. So i'll build some mock boxes of the Titans and Tubas to get a feel for their size. Then i'll come back and tell you guys my limits for each, then we can decide which would be the best solution. As far as the sizes go, the Titans are 24 in x 24 in x 39/48 in, correct? The Tubas are 30 in x 30 in x 16/24 in, or are there other sizes besides 16 and 24?

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#10 Post by WB »

REDLINE wrote:As far as the sizes go,
The home page has links to all the different designs, with a blurb, and dimensions.

http://billfitzmaurice.com/
Tomorrow I'm going to stop procrastinating - WB

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Tim A
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#11 Post by Tim A »

REDLINE wrote:I can see that having 4 smaller subs would be more beneficial, but that's not what i'm looking for. I would prefer to have 2 bigger subs than 4 smaller ones. I
I'm certainly not going to try and talk you into something you don't want, but I will provide some food for thought.

Mouth area is what makes the difference. 2 small subs, say 14" wide, will perform the same as a single 28" sub with dual drivers. They'll beat out a single sub narrower than their combined width.

Several smaller units give you the option of taking only what you need for a specific job. Take two for a small room, 4 for a big room.

Several smaller units give you the option of separating the subs in large rooms where they can be at least 56' apart, but still take advantage of mutual coupling.

Large subs can be difficult to get through doors.

REDLINE
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#12 Post by REDLINE »

Tim A wrote:
REDLINE wrote:I can see that having 4 smaller subs would be more beneficial, but that's not what i'm looking for. I would prefer to have 2 bigger subs than 4 smaller ones. I
I'm certainly not going to try and talk you into something you don't want, but I will provide some food for thought.

Mouth area is what makes the difference. 2 small subs, say 14" wide, will perform the same as a single 28" sub with dual drivers. They'll beat out a single sub narrower than their combined width.

Several smaller units give you the option of taking only what you need for a specific job. Take two for a small room, 4 for a big room.

Several smaller units give you the option of separating the subs in large rooms where they can be at least 56' apart, but still take advantage of mutual coupling.

Large subs can be difficult to get through doors.
Actually, you are totally right. I realized this last night as I stared at a Titan 48 cardboard box towering in my foyer. You really don't realize how big these things are until you build them. I also thought about all the house parties/smaller events that I do. Even 1 big sub would probably be too much for some of those. The problem that i'm having is that I really can't figure out which sub would be the most efficient. All the SPL charts for different things have different drivers. I also built a 16 in wide Tuba 30, and it's not bad at all. But for example, how much of an average dB increase would I get by making it 18 in, or even 24 in wide? Or would I see a significant dB decrease if I made it a Tuba 24 instead?

Also, I really like subs that are more rectangular than square. So if I could build a smaller Titan 39 that could outperform the 16 in wide Tuba 30 anywhere above 50 Hz, that would be pretty nice. I want to try and build a Titan 39 box to compare to my Tuba 30, but I am a little confused on the sizing. Obviously it's 39 in long, but do all the Titan 39s have a depth of 19.5 in? Then, which width in a Titan 39 would be of equivalent/better power to the 16 in wide Tuba 30?

REDLINE
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#13 Post by REDLINE »

Oh I also forgot to ask about drivers. Now I plan on paying about $200 per driver for each of the subs. So am I really worrying too much about which cabinet size is most efficient? And since I plan on getting really powerful drivers, would like oh say four 16 in wide Tuba 30s (with powerful drivers) be able to handle a big homecoming or prom? And why is a driver like the JBL about $100 more than a Definimax that seems to be exactly the same?

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David Carter
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#14 Post by David Carter »

REDLINE wrote:Obviously it's 39 in long, but do all the Titan 39s have a depth of 19.5 in?
Yes. I built two Titan 39's 14" wide, and they are 39H x 14W x 19.5D. The design specs are such that the only dimension that varies is the width depending on your needs and driver choice. I believe that's true of all the other Tuba and Titan designs as well, but I only have first-hand experience with the Titan 39.
Dave

Built:
- Omni 10 (S2010 + piezo array)
- 2 x DR250 (DL II 2510 + melded array)
- 2 x Titan 39 (BP102 - 14"W)
- 2 x Titan 39 (3012LF - 20"W)
- 4 x DR200 (Delta Pro 8B + melded array)

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Tim A
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#15 Post by Tim A »

Here's a chart comparing the Tuba 30 and Titan 39.

Image

Wider will give you better response, but you have to take into consideration pack space, moving, setup, etc. They're both about 8 cu ft. in this example. The Tuba gives better low end extension, the Titan has better response in the power band. The Titan would be much easier to move with casters and a handle.

The Tuba 24 is a great little sub, but it has a purpose. It's designed for small setups and people with little pack space. In thise case smaller also means a much shorter horn. Don't go any smaller than the T-30 or T-39, adjust the width to suit your needs. The cabs all stay the same height and depth, the only thing that changes is the width.

The JBL costs more because it says JBL on it. Stick with the recommended drivers.

Driver cost has little to do with performance. A 14-20" wide Titan 39 loaded with a BP102 will give you excellent performance in a very small package. The cabinet is only going to give you what it will give you dB-wise and you'll reach a point of diminishing returns on power handling. The truth is, if you need more volume, you add more cabinets. You also must take into consideration power compression. It's not uncommon for a 500w driver to stop getting louder at around 250w. Any power you add after that is only causing more heat to the voice coil.

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