Afternoon all!

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rwalkerphl
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:00 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Afternoon all!

#1 Post by rwalkerphl »

Hi Guys,

I'm Robin (and I am a guy, contrary to the bief of many when they see my name!), and I live in the Atlanta area, recently moved down from NJ, and originally from England.

I came across this site with regards to building some PA speakers. To explain, I am about to start providing music for a ballroom dancing club, and am using it as excuse to build some cabs. I just need to figure out which ones to build, and get the tools/materials together.

The venue is a church hall, around 100' x 40', but the dance floor area is onlu 40' x 30' roughly, and the music needs to be amied at that area, with the area off to the left where everyone sits, and likes to chat. max people on the floor is around 50 or so. Music will be dance orchestra through Salsa. I will be piping the music from a laptop. Ampwise, I have a Alesis power amp I have for my home recording studio that I am hoping will be sufficient.

Can anyone guide me in what I need to suit this type of environment?

Thanks!

Robin.

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Tim A
Posts: 3666
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: SE Michigan, Licensed BF Builder

#2 Post by Tim A »

Brave Sir Robin ran away.
Bravely ran away, away!
When danger reared its ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
Bravely taking to his feet
He beat a very brave retreat,
Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin!


You have a lot of choices.

I'd think a pair of Tuba 24's or Titan 39's for subs with a pair of OTop 12's or DR200's would be sufficient. If you want a bit more on the top go with DR250's.

For full range, any of the Omni's would do it.

Which amp is it?

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Dave Non-Zero
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Location: Dundee, Scotland
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#3 Post by Dave Non-Zero »

He was not the least bit scared to be killed in nasty ways
Brave brave brave brave Sir Robin.

:D
-1 for thought terminating cliches.

Built and/or own:
8 x T48 24" 3015LF
6 x DR280
2 x DR250 old style beta10
2 x T36s 20" delta15L
1 x TAT
1 x dual Lab12 30" T60

In Progress:
2 x DR280

rwalkerphl
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:00 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

#4 Post by rwalkerphl »

Hah! And there was I thinking I'd joined a Speaker building group, and it turns out to be the Monty Python Fan Club!!

The amp is an Alesis RA150.

In terms of which speakers, obviosly cost is a factor, and to be honest, dancers don't have the best ears (I, as a musician do though!).

I am assuming Omni's will do full range? If so, are there recommended ones for the needs I mentioned that could be augmented with Subs if necessary?

Thanks,
Brave Brave Brave..... Sir Robin!

David Robinson
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:58 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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#5 Post by David Robinson »

rwalkerphl wrote:Hah! And there was I thinking I'd joined a Speaker building group, and it turns out to be the Monty Python Fan Club!!

Thanks,
Brave Brave Brave..... Sir Robin!
I haven't seen to many builders using plywood made from No 1 The Larch plywood, although there have been documented flesh wounds...

The RA150 might be a little underpowered, but I'd try it with a pair of Omni12's or 15's.
I'm not a musician, but I play one in a band.

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James R
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Location: Upstate NY

#6 Post by James R »

The knights who say" NEAT"
" Everyone Has a Photographic Memory, Just Not Everyone Has Film In The Camera"


4 x T48 24.5" 3015LF
8 x 112 Otops


NEXT 2 x DR280's

rwalkerphl
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:00 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

#7 Post by rwalkerphl »

Yeah, when I looked back at the specs for the amp, at 45W RMS, I realized I might need something beefier. Might build an amp while I 'm at it, then I can have a mic input as well as the music.

So, the omni's would be sufficient without a Sub then?


Alternatively, I can always bring a Shwubbewy!!

Thanks!

David Robinson
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
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#8 Post by David Robinson »

By the specs, the Omnis are designed to run without "shwubwoofery". I don't know if the same applies to the Omnis, but with the frequent posts around here about limiting, etc, your RA150 might just pull it off.

As a point of reference, is there an existing rig in the hall? What kind of volume are you looking for?
I'm not a musician, but I play one in a band.

Sydney

#9 Post by Sydney »

Since the music will be dance orchestra through Salsa, I wouldn't think you would need subs, especially for a dance floor of that size, and I think the full range models are fine.
If you really wanted to make sure you were covered for both volume and low end... As Tim said T24's and DR200's. ( but not with the amp you have )
Last edited by Sydney on Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tim A
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Location: SE Michigan, Licensed BF Builder

#10 Post by Tim A »

Bring us a subwoofery! And place it over there, with a little path for a two level effect.

It kind of sounds like a pair of Omni 12 Tall Boys might be the ticket.

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Dave Non-Zero
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#11 Post by Dave Non-Zero »

As long as you dont say direct radiator. Suffice to say it is one of the words we knights cannot hear!
-1 for thought terminating cliches.

Built and/or own:
8 x T48 24" 3015LF
6 x DR280
2 x DR250 old style beta10
2 x T36s 20" delta15L
1 x TAT
1 x dual Lab12 30" T60

In Progress:
2 x DR280

rwalkerphl
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:00 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

#12 Post by rwalkerphl »

Do I need to get the lumber for the cabs by chopping down a tree with a HEWWING?!

rwalkerphl
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:00 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

#13 Post by rwalkerphl »

Seriously, are the tall boys meant to be floor mounted?

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Frankenspeakers
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Location: Fremont Ca

#14 Post by Frankenspeakers »

rwalkerphl wrote:Seriously, are the tall boys meant to be floor mounted?
Oh, Bloody,
(I turn my head without coughing for a minute or five and y'all've up and started the Full Monty <Python> whilst I wasn't looking) Crunchy Frog anyone?

Tall Boys can stand on the floor if necessesary. That said, I'm gonna push you off in another direction (for something compleatly different). I suggest you consider a small, portable solution starting with a pair of O10's (great speakers to get your speaker jones started with) to use your existing amp with. they are fairly full range and if your build them with the wide body & melded tweeters, they can be stacked for the start of a nice line array. If you are on a budget, you can start with the MCM 10's (25$ each) but make sure that the piezos are decent, get 'em from PE or Leland. The 2510's are about as good as you can get for a 10" driver and they are the recommended 'top shelf' driver for many BFM designs. I would recommend raising the speakers so that the tweeters are at ear level on the dance floor a decent set of sticks will do just fine. This will get you started.

The next step is to decide whether the bass is enough as it is or if you need more. If you find that you want to turn up the bass a bit (and also get a little louder maybe) the next steps will be to get a sub. This is where the modular part of these BFM designs really shine. Start with a pair of T24's. Some people are wanting to experiment with four T18's, but I think it would be wise to wait untill more results come in. A pair of T24's in a nice corner or wall loaded should suffice. This also requires an active crossover and a separate sub amp. Plan on starting with a hundered watts or so per driver, minimum 200 (100 per side) to 400 watts to start with. Alesis Sampson, Nady and many more make decent cheap amps. A used Hafler for a couple hundred would be great, older Crown, or Peavey, (except for PV models) also make excellent stuff that can be found used for very reasonable prices. Rane makes excellent crossovers- a used AC23 is a good find, or even a little Rolls crossover will do the trick. A 31`band Graphic EQ is giong to be in your future (Rane again). Fore a few dollars more, the Behringer DCX & DEQ are the 'step-up' options.

Others will have many and divers opines. I think DJ Phatman has some O-10's in his rig see what he thinks.


Oh, and welcome aboard!

EDIT: I know I said 'per side' on the sub amp, but plan on running the subs mono summed and crossed at ~100 Hz. You can bridge the channels for more power, but it may not be necesseary. I'm making the recommendations based on 'church' 'orchestra to salsa' and 'floor size' (and 30 to 50 age demographics) YMMV I know opinions may differ widely on those issues.
There is no technical problem however complex, that cannot be solved or finessed by a direct application of brute strength and ignorance.

"Gimme the hammer... Naaaw not that one, the freakin' big one- I'll MAKE it fit!"

rwalkerphl
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:00 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

#15 Post by rwalkerphl »

Hi Franken,

Now that is the kind of advice I was looking for. Start small and expand as necessary. Looks like the O10's will be a good start for me, and I can test them out and add if I need to.

And... I am not a lumberjack, but the parrot is DEAD - it is DECEASED!!!!

Thanks again for taking the time on the advice.

Robin.

PS Any idea on how much it will cost to construct a pair of these?

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