Which cab to build.

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rrfireblade954
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:47 am

Which cab to build.

#1 Post by rrfireblade954 »

Greetings for Australia.
My name is dave, i need help my brothers. I wish to figuratively speaking. Blow my guitarists off the stage. They both have valve 4x12 cabs. And my 1000w trace elliot 8x10 still isn’t quite enough. And I don’t particularly like lugging both around.

So my question is..
i have moderate to good wood working skills. My local hardware store will cut the longer cuts for me. I don’t particularly have a speaker preference. And cost, well lets see. Im happy to buy whatever. I would like to be able to lift it. Into my utility.
Ute, as we say here. Oh, fender precision lyte. Pub and club rock covers. Thankyou. And cheers for the invite to the group.

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Seth
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Re: Which cab to build.

#2 Post by Seth »

Hi Dave. Welcome to the party. I'm Seth.

The first and best option is the toughest... ask them to turn down. :D (half joking... I know that's the most unreasonable reasonable request most times)

Is your current setup not keeping up enough for you on stage, or for the room/audience?

Do you guys have and use a PA with subs? If so, a little run down on the complete system would be helpful. Do any of the cab's get mic'd, or is it more just vocals and drums in the PA?
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Which cab to build.

#3 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

rrfireblade954 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:30 pm They both have valve 4x12 cabs.
For pub and club no one needs more than a 112. Unfortunately six stringers tend to all picture themselves as Angus playing at Wembley, and use gear appropriate for that. We can certainly make recommendations for a rig that will send them home crying, but it won't be compact.

Bruce Weldy
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Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Which cab to build.

#4 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:36 am
rrfireblade954 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:30 pm They both have valve 4x12 cabs.
For pub and club no one needs more than a 112. Unfortunately six stringers tend to all picture themselves as Angus playing at Wembley, and use gear appropriate for that. We can certainly make recommendations for a rig that will send them home crying, but it won't be compact.
Fortunately, the big amps are giving way to smaller ones. I've been playing a 112 or 212 amp since the 70s. Never was asked to turn up and not have enough juice to do it. My band is really loud and we do it with two 112s for guitar and the bass player uses a two cab setup with 2x10 and a 1x15. I can't even imagine what 2 guys with 100 watt head and 4x12 cabs would be like.

Seth was right in asking what you are doing for the PA. Is it enough to get the vocals over the top of the guitarists?.......and you? I mean, after all you're having trouble keeping up and you're hitting the crowd with 8x10 and 1000 watts? I'm surprised the pub owner hasn't asked you to pay for putting the paint back on the walls. :mrgreen:

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

rrfireblade954
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:47 am

Re: Which cab to build.

#5 Post by rrfireblade954 »

Hi guys.
Cheers for the replys.
We try to turn it down, at the beginning of the night.
But you know how it goes…. Songs get heavier.
Volume goes up
Currently nothing is miced up. We are only just starting
To build our pa.
Oh, or di.
Just really on stage cabs only. For instruments anyways.
Super keen to maximise my sound.

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Seth
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Re: Which cab to build.

#6 Post by Seth »

Is your current setup not keeping up enough for you on stage, or for the room/audience?
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Which cab to build.

#7 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

rrfireblade954 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:42 pm Currently nothing is miced up. We are only just starting
To build our pa.
The PA is where you want to start. The backline cabs should only be driving the stage, the PA drives the room.

rrfireblade954
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:47 am

Re: Which cab to build.

#8 Post by rrfireblade954 »

My current setup holds up ok, for on stage volume.
But if i can build a more efficient cabinet. That’s even
Gonna weigh less, then that’s a good choice in my books.
My current trace elliot weighs like 40kg, that’s gotta
Be like 80 pounds.
Id love some more head room. In back up.

Although, I realise the pa is where to start. As a band we
All pay for that. From proceeds, so right now. Band equipment
Is still coming. But my gear. I can definitely upgrade.

rrfireblade954
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:47 am

Re: Which cab to build.

#9 Post by rrfireblade954 »

Probably leaning towards the omni 15 tallboy.

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Bryan Cox
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Re: Which cab to build.

#10 Post by Bryan Cox »

Hi, Dave. I'm Bryan.

I want to first strongly suggest that neither of your guitarists need 4x12 cabinets. Sure, it adds some punch to the low mids but it is WAY too loud for pub gigs. I'd like to offer that a 2x12 cab with low efficiency drivers is more than enough.

I use a Trainwreck Express clone (35 watts) with a 2x12 cabinet with low efficiency speakers. I then use an attenuator to knock a few dB off and turn the speaker cab around backward. This allows me to get the tone I want without blowing people's heads off.

As for the bass cabinet, there are others who are better suited for that question. I can say that you can build a much lighter, cleaner sounding setup with BFM designs. However, I do not think the outcome will be worthwhile if the guitarists cannot tame themselves.

Just my opinion.
Otop 12 x 4 (Delta Pro 12-450a) 2x melded, 2x straight
Titan 39 x 4 (3012LF) 20" wide

rrfireblade954
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:47 am

Re: Which cab to build.

#11 Post by rrfireblade954 »

Hi bryan.
Thankyou for the solid advice.
I was probably alittle too harsh on the guitarist. Lol.
Seriously though. We all like the way it sounds with 4x12 cabs.

Me personally. I just wanna build a new cab. For a project
But also more efficiency. If i can lug one cab. Instead of 2.
Im happy.

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Seth
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Re: Which cab to build.

#12 Post by Seth »

A note about Bryans post above... he plays guitar. Definitely not biased advice.

rrfireblade954 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:25 pm My current setup holds up ok, for on stage volume.
But if i can build a more efficient cabinet. That’s even
Gonna weigh less, then that’s a good choice in my books.
My current trace elliot weighs like 40kg, that’s gotta
Be like 80 pounds.
Id love some more head room. In back up.

Although, I realise the pa is where to start. As a band we
All pay for that. From proceeds, so right now. Band equipment
Is still coming. But my gear. I can definitely upgrade.
I just want to take a moment and acknowledge that you asked what cab to build and not necessarily how to solve your problem or how to run sound for a modern era band. The questions being asked of you are purposeful and the recommendations given are good information. But, they do not answer your question. Here's the answer you're looking for... Build 2 T39's as wide as you're willing to transport and 2 OmniTop12's (or SLA Pro's (easier build)). Or, if you'd rather, start off with one of each, instead of two. Run a SansAmp, into a dbx Driverack, into a 2 channel amp with about 400-450wpc @ 8 Ohms, one channel to the sub/s, one to the top/s. That will do what you want it to do and give you all the tunability to make it sound however you want it to sound. And they'll be begging you to turn down, guaranteed. Likely, it will more than double the perceived output you're currently capable of producing, even with only one of each. However, this solution won't be lighter or smaller than your current setup. But, it is very easy to move and load. My 73 year old dad wheels the T39 I built him around, no problem. He's even loaded it in the SUV without struggle. Tilt it back, lift the bottom (the light end), and slide it in. Easy in, easy out.

The problem is, just as you're already seeing in your current configuration, volume starts off reasonable... then one guy thinks to himself, "I need to hear a little more me" and turns up a little. Then the next guy has the same thought, then the next. Up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up. It's nothing new. Happens all the time. The solution you seek will only work until they decide to step up their gear too, to keep up with (and exceed) your rigs capabilities. Then you up, then they up... it only ends when someone runs out of money, everyone goes def, or you stop running your sound like a 1960's garage band and start running sound like a modern band. That is, unless it is a garage band. But, if you have an audience, they'll appreciate better quality sound, purposefully mixed, and at a volume that doesn't make them cringe.

Say you take my advice and build 2 T39'S and 2 OT12's (or just 1 & 1) and set them up as I mentioned. It'll way outpower your bandmates. Here's the real beauty of the plan, over time you can transition them to PA duty. They'll handle that great too, and would ultimately be the best solution for you guys all around. It will allow you to all bring smaller amps to gigs too. Mic the guitar/bass cabs, put them on tilt-backs in front of you aimed back toward you (away from the audience), directly at your face. This has more than a couple benefits. But, two primary benefits are; It lets you guys, the musicians, actually hear what you sound like ( with the cab behind you and on the floor, it puts your ears off axis and the sound you hear isn't what someone on axis hears... no one has ears on the back of their knees.). It also keeps volumes in check as you're less likely to have the need to up the volume and certainly wont crank it (unless they be cuckoo/loco/less than smart). Get a sound geek to join your band and run your mix for you, or have ONE band member do the mixing from stage.



If the T39/OT12 solution doesn't appeal to you, I think the next step down would be an Omni 15 or Omni 15 Tall Boy loaded with two 12's (instead of 1x15).
Last edited by Seth on Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

rrfireblade954
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:47 am

Re: Which cab to build.

#13 Post by rrfireblade954 »

Righto,
Seth… exactly what i wanted to know.
I do appreciate everyone’s inputs. And advise. But
I really did just want recommendations on cabs forum users
Have built and used. With benefits.
So my next question.
How difficult are they really to build?
As I said. I have moderate to high wood work skills.

Thanks again.
What a great group.

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Seth
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Re: Which cab to build.

#14 Post by Seth »

If you are good at following directions, all the cabs are easy to build. The more intricate designs just take more time and effort to complete than the simpler designs that have less angularity and less parts overall. At the bottom of the sales/information page for each design, there's a "Construction Degree of Difficulty" rating, from 1 to 10. It seems to equate well to the amount of time it takes to build too. Fewer build steps, shorter build time.

Grey Owl's Omni 15 Tall Boy build: NEW BUILD - Omni 15 Tall Boy in New Zealand

Grant Bunter's T39 build. He addresses some of your questions in the first post. Good read overall: T39: 4 x 20", 2 x 28" completed

ACUA's OT12 build: Omnitop12, my first

Radian's SLA Pro build: Radian's SLA Pro 4x6 build
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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Seth
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Re: Which cab to build.

#15 Post by Seth »

DR200 is supposed to be one of the most difficult builds. This build thread is current, active, and nearly complete with lots of build notes and photos.

HowieZ DR200 build
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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