Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

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Seth
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#61 Post by Seth »

RYNO20 wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:38 pm
Seth wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:39 pm
RYNO20 wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:32 am
Well then I will need to change my tops to bring in the new non distorted sounds.
My Db meter reads low 90’s when I’m feeling the great songs lol.
Thanks very much for the education.
Low 90's is a reasonable volume. Do you know whether your meter indicates dBA or dBC? Should say somewhere on the unit or display screen.
DBA
GOING To measure my current system for voltage at volume see what it is and keep learning
Oh yeah last side on
Standard voltage meters have a hard time measuring voltage from music signals (can't do it). You'll have to either play a sine wave instead of music and guestimate the volume based on that single frequency, or play music, note the dBu of your music input channel gain on your mixer, match the input gain of your sine wave generator channel on the mixer to the input gain of your music channel, then play the sine wave at the same fader level and test the resultant voltage. If your music and sine are from the same source, just verify that they both indicate about the same input or output dBu on the mixer (whichever your mixer indicates).

Also, depending on your EQ structure, your voltage could vary quite a bit throughout the frequency spectrum the amplified channel is responsible for.

If you have a voltage meter that will read true RMS voltage, you wont need to go through all that, just play your music and test.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

RYNO20
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Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#62 Post by RYNO20 »

Seth wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:21 pm
RYNO20 wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:38 pm
Seth wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:39 pm
Low 90's is a reasonable volume. Do you know whether your meter indicates dBA or dBC? Should say somewhere on the unit or display screen.
DBA
GOING To measure my current system for voltage at volume see what it is and keep learning
Oh yeah last side on
Standard voltage meters have a hard time measuring voltage from music signals (can't do it). You'll have to either play a sine wave instead of music and guestimate the volume based on that single frequency, or play music, note the dBu of your music input channel gain on your mixer, match the input gain of your sine wave generator channel on the mixer to the input gain of your music channel, then play the sine wave at the same fader level and test the resultant voltage. If your music and sine are from the same source, just verify that they both indicate about the same input or output dBu on the mixer (whichever your mixer indicates).

Also, depending on your EQ structure, your voltage could vary quite a bit throughout the frequency spectrum the amplified channel is responsible for.

If you have a voltage meter that will read true RMS voltage, you wont need to go through all that, just play your music and test.
Great I’ll check my fluke see if it reads rms , it’s not expensive one.
Got my Lab broke in and mounted, now to finish panel 7 and access panel, saved for last due to driver wasn’t here yet back then.
Also got van running, being retired has its perks

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Seth
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#63 Post by Seth »

Seth wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:21 pm Standard voltage meters have a hard time measuring voltage from music signals (can't do it).
I should have said... it will read something, but what it shows won't be accurate. A music signal will likely read about half of the value you'd see with a sine wave.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#64 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Seth wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:38 pm
Seth wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:21 pm Standard voltage meters have a hard time measuring voltage from music signals (can't do it).
I should have said... it will read something, but what it shows won't be accurate. A music signal will likely read about half of the value you'd see with a sine wave.
Yeah, I tried measuring during my loudest gig once and it really just bounced around and didn't ever show to be that high.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

RYNO20
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#65 Post by RYNO20 »

Seth wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:38 pm
Seth wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:21 pm Standard voltage meters have a hard time measuring voltage from music signals (can't do it).
I should have said... it will read something, but what it shows won't be accurate. A music signal will likely read about half of the value you'd see with a sine wave.
Ok , to busy to get it done anyway
Thanks for the info

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#66 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Seth wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:21 pm Standard voltage meters have a hard time measuring voltage from music signals
No meter can read voltage from music because the dynamic range of music is at least 20dB. VU meters and LED level meters are voltage meters, and you never see them sit at a constant reading with music content.

RYNO20
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#67 Post by RYNO20 »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:09 pm
Seth wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:21 pm Standard voltage meters have a hard time measuring voltage from music signals
No meter can read voltage from music because the dynamic range of music is at least 20dB. VU meters and LED level meters are voltage meters, and you never see them sit at a constant reading with music content.
Thanks , that’s a great description

RYNO20
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Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#68 Post by RYNO20 »

1749BC18-BFC8-47A1-B9A0-A4013050783B.jpeg
RYNO20 wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:14 pm
Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:09 pm
Seth wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:21 pm Standard voltage meters have a hard time measuring voltage from music signals
No meter can read voltage from music because the dynamic range of music is at least 20dB. VU meters and LED level meters are voltage meters, and you never see them sit at a constant reading with music content.
Thanks , that’s a great description
Up and running, covering not done.
My phone 1/8 jack broke so running 60hz off generator only worked with iPad and every time it switches off changing screens but safe for now , I see how voltage is being monitored, my uppers got done at same time and have same voltage limit , imagine that they’re the same 600 watt.
I felt a little silly outta small tub it o my ear but hey Bill said listen — lol , found a leak at speaker bolt , so thanks for the info mr experience

Grant Bunter
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#69 Post by Grant Bunter »

^ Yes :)
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

RYNO20
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Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#70 Post by RYNO20 »

Grant Bunter wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:34 pm ^ Yes :)
Hey I see you’ve built DR 250 with Hf horns, that’s what I’m going for for my new uppers, what kinda wattage are they using for a pair? Any pointers?
I’m running this new T-48 wide ass 36 with my PV-900 at bridged , I can’t hardly believe it.

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Seth
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#71 Post by Seth »

RYNO20 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:13 pm Up and running, covering not done.
Looks like you doubled up the outer panels with some pine. Is that access panel 3 layers, 1½" thick? Built like a brick!
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Grant Bunter
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Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#72 Post by Grant Bunter »

RYNO20 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:07 pm
Grant Bunter wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:34 pm ^ Yes :)
Hey I see you’ve built DR 250 with Hf horns, that’s what I’m going for for my new uppers, what kinda wattage are they using for a pair? Any pointers?
I’m running this new T-48 wide ass 36 with my PV-900 at bridged , I can’t hardly believe it.
My compression driver based DR250's only come out when necessary, mostly because I haven't quite yet got a safe way to put them up where they belong (I won't put a pair a side on ordinary type heavy duty stands, I'm not convinced the adjustable top hat on the melded pair will take the weight of 2 cabs).
Just the same as the melded pair, DR250's should be limited to about 40V per cab with a 2510 mid driver, and you'll hear distortion before 40V.

40V into 8 ohms is 200W per side. A pair per side is 400W.
Depending on where I am, I use a couple of different amps for tops/mains.
One does 450W/4ohms per channel for generator powered gigs.
The other does 650W/4Ohms when running off wall power, or large generators (like 30Kva and up).

Your T48 cab only needs 312W/8Ohms to be running at 50V, about half the power provided your bridged PV900.
Make sure that limiter is set right...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#73 Post by RYNO20 »

39598C48-C3B3-435B-B315-66685CA7CDD9.jpeg
77048DD1-06C9-4221-9BBA-3E9A856423BD.jpeg
Seth wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:28 pm
RYNO20 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:13 pm Up and running, covering not done.
Looks like you doubled up the outer panels with some pine. Is that access panel 3 layers, 1½" thick? Built like a brick!
I figured you could spot it
It’s a permanent setup so yes because of how I will finish it didn’t want screw holes in sides or top or anywhere
Used all BB 9 ply 4 sheets,double top ,back,front and leftovers on bottom- the sides are 3 ply 1/2 , oh and the chamber reducers have 2 supports in each side and are spray foam filled along with the 45 degree corners.
Speaker cover is just temporary
Took you advice and it’s running on the PV-900 bridged , wow at very low power I can now here the instrument that makes the low note.

RYNO20
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#74 Post by RYNO20 »

7154BE52-C84B-4FFC-8BCC-C85B370E4EC3.jpeg
7A0388E3-4B01-4930-8D87-E97043161488.jpeg
Grant Bunter wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:59 pm
RYNO20 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:07 pm
Grant Bunter wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:34 pm ^ Yes :)
Hey I see you’ve built DR 250 with Hf horns, that’s what I’m going for for my new uppers, what kinda wattage are they using for a pair? Any pointers?
I’m running this new T-48 wide ass 36 with my PV-900 at bridged , I can’t hardly believe it.
My compression driver based DR250's only come out when necessary, mostly because I haven't quite yet got a safe way to put them up where they belong (I won't put a pair a side on ordinary type heavy duty stands, I'm not convinced the adjustable top hat on the melded pair will take the weight of 2 cabs).
Just the same as the melded pair, DR250's should be limited to about 40V per cab with a 2510 mid driver, and you'll hear distortion before 40V.

40V into 8 ohms is 200W per side. A pair per side is 400W.
Depending on where I am, I use a couple of different amps for tops/mains.
One does 450W/4ohms per channel for generator powered gigs.
The other does 650W/4Ohms when running off wall power, or large generators (like 30Kva and up).

Your T48 cab only needs 312W/8Ohms to be running at 50V, about half the power provided your bridged PV900.
Make sure that limiter is set right...
6 ohm is the Lab 15
But yes I’m being careful setting the limiter, ran out of time last night so will finish today
As you can see by the pics that mine is a permanent install in a 40x48 steel walled building 13 feet ceiling.
That is right and left channel above T-48 , BMD-750 (p.audio) and 1508 bmx he peaveys
I can separate them if it would be better but the shelf was there lol , they weigh 100 lbs each or close (yeah very thick sides etc just experiments.
Putting a stand to the 6x6 wall posts to hold speakers up and at down angles , swivels I can do.
You run a pair per side , yeah my shop could get away with one per side

RYNO20
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Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:42 pm
Location: Albany, Illinois

Re: Ryno — new from Illinois on the Mississippi

#75 Post by RYNO20 »

Seth wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:28 pm
RYNO20 wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:13 pm Up and running, covering not done.
Looks like you doubled up the outer panels with some pine. Is that access panel 3 layers, 1½" thick? Built like a brick!
Okay what’s going on —???
I got the instructions in front of me on paper — 60hz input low amp at full , mixer raise till under 60 volts about 56, bring down threshold till clips , play up and down with volume see no volts above 57 .
Switch to mains and only get max 8ish volts and while messing with it I see sub graph in red (the amp not on) same with the highs no volts hardly won’t even show on the graph on the dbxpa2.
Was doing one channel at a time , using one speaker wire hooked to my volt meter.
HELP

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