Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

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Raphael
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Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#1 Post by Raphael » Fri May 15, 2020 7:29 pm

Hello!

I’m a long time DJ, house music junkie. I have been running a QSC powered setup - 2 hpr18, 2 k12 and 2 k10.

I recently stumbled upon this site and I am OBSESSED.

I have a baby shop with all necessary tools (except router) and decent carpentry skills

My question to all:

I need a multipurpose setup.
90% pre recorded DJ music. Pop - EDM - Disco - House Music.
Indoor/outdoor
Small to large crowd size with the ultimate goal to provide sound to small/medium size festivals.

My brain so far and what can I do with this aka what do I do because I’m new.

8 tuba 30’s (double12 full size)
4 DR 250
Can I expand this to suit?

Thank you and I love all these threads!

Bruce Weldy
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Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#2 Post by Bruce Weldy » Fri May 15, 2020 7:41 pm

That would be a pretty stout system. And yes, it's all scalable. That's like having 16 standard T30s.....so, lots of bottom end. And a good choice if you don't need to to go stupid low - then it would be T60s. But, based on the music you listed and you didn't start your thread with "how can I get the most bass", I think you picked the right boxes.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Tom Smit
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Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#3 Post by Tom Smit » Fri May 15, 2020 9:20 pm

Welcome to the forum!

+1 to what Bruce said.
TomS

Raphael
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#4 Post by Raphael » Sat May 16, 2020 1:23 pm

Awesome, thanks fellas.

With a system like that what would be the best way to set it up? I know venue and location will need alteration but generally, what would the best placement be for a typical “DJ” event?

Also: with forum rules, should this question be asked here? Or should it be discussed in a different location.

Thank you!

Bruce Weldy
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Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#5 Post by Bruce Weldy » Sat May 16, 2020 3:11 pm

We can talk about it here....

It's always best to cluster your subs together. In most DJ setups, the mains aren't very wide, do I'd put the subs clustered together right in front. If you can get the mains spread 56 feet apart, you can split the subs - that's assuming a 40hz high pass.

Indoors, you can try corner loading or wall loading.....but, if you have that many subs, I doubt it will be necessary.

In fact, if you definitely want to go with dual loaded subs, then start by just building 4. That's still giving you a 2:1 ratio of subs to tops. If you need more, then build more. With 4, you could v-plate the stack with two on each wing, but it's that's too tall, v-plate two sets of two and put 'em side by side. That would keep the height down if you don't have a tall stage or platform.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Raphael
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#6 Post by Raphael » Sat May 16, 2020 3:52 pm

Thanks Bruce!

You have given my brain some direction:)

I can’t wait to start on this project. I recently received a price quote to purchase a similar system and was wrecked by the price. I never thought I could built something comparable. Damn exciting!

Cheers!

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#7 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Sat May 16, 2020 4:26 pm

Be sure to use 3012LF drivers. Dual Lab-12s would require a forklift to move them. For sure start with four, you may never need more than that.

Grant Bunter
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Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#8 Post by Grant Bunter » Sat May 16, 2020 5:18 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:11 pm
We can talk about it here....

It's always best to cluster your subs together. In most DJ setups, the mains aren't very wide, do I'd put the subs clustered together right in front. If you can get the mains spread 56 feet apart, you can split the subs - that's assuming a 40hz high pass.
Hi, and welcome :)

Just to clarify what Bruce said.
You need to separate stacks by 56 feet in order to prevent cancellation at 40Hz in the subs.
The High pass for 4 or more T30's is 30Hz. That would require a splitting distance of 75 feet.
So, stick with the cluster :)

Since you're in the thinking about it stage, I'll just throw this in.
For the genre's you've mentioned, there seems to be more and more content around 30Hz in the tracks. So, you've got to be able to cover that.
4 or more T48's have a high pass of 35Hz, only 5 Hz higher than the T30 ( we can talk more about brick wall limiting, slope types, and their effect later, but you'll still have 30Hz output), but they will beat the snot out of T30's from 38Hz and up, so they're worth a look.

If you were to examine the low frequency content in all your tracks, and discover you regularly need below 30Hz, then the only cab choice would be the T60.

One thing we know.
Most DJ's are clueless when it come to the physics of sound.
You need to decide at some point if you want to obey physics, or do what looks good, because the 2 are often mutually opposed.
That doesn't mean setting up has to look bad though...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Raphael
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#9 Post by Raphael » Sun May 17, 2020 9:45 pm

I like physics :)

Although I am worried the tuba 60’s will be too big for transport and storage. I’m not set on any size per se but compactness will come into play with certain venues. I guess I can build a few different boxes but I would prefer investing in a system I can just scale as needed.

That said. Im a DJ and a bit clueless:) but I’m not stubborn, I truly appreciate the info.

- Are the titans a no go for edm? (They sure are sexy)
- can the t60’s be configured in a stubbier profile? (Call me a dreamer)

-

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Tom Smit
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Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#10 Post by Tom Smit » Sun May 17, 2020 10:17 pm

Raphael wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:45 pm
- can the t60’s be configured in a stubbier profile? (Call me a dreamer)
I would think that the longer profile of the T60 would be easier to handle rather than a box that one can't get their arms around. Also, 2-high vs 2-deep would likely use up the same pack space.
TomS

Grant Bunter
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Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#11 Post by Grant Bunter » Sun May 17, 2020 10:57 pm

Raphael wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:45 pm
I like physics :)

Although I am worried the tuba 60’s will be too big for transport and storage. I’m not set on any size per se but compactness will come into play with certain venues. I guess I can build a few different boxes but I would prefer investing in a system I can just scale as needed.

That said. Im a DJ and a bit clueless:) but I’m not stubborn, I truly appreciate the info.

- Are the titans a no go for edm? (They sure are sexy)
- can the t60’s be configured in a stubbier profile? (Call me a dreamer)

-
:) The T48 I mentioned earlier is a Titan, so, go back and have another read with that new info.

The only variable in any sub build is width.

So we can try and keep on track with what we're telling you, what do you move your gear around in, or propose to move your gear around in?
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Seth
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Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#12 Post by Seth » Mon May 18, 2020 2:48 am

Raphael wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:45 pm
Are the titans a no go for edm?
That depends on your personal opinion. Are you happy with the bass response you get with the HPR 18's? If so, Titans will suit you just fine, especially the T48. However, if you want to cover the low-low stuff, Tuba's are your only real choice in the speaker line-up here.

Personally, I highly crave strong representation of the bottom octave. I've recently built a T39 for live music rehearsal's and small venues. I've tested/played a lot of recorded content through it. After a good bit of trying different EQing and crossover settings (by ear, haven't EQ'd with the RTA yet), it's pretty awesome for 90% of the music in my library, not bad for 5%, and completely incapable of playing the bottom notes on the last 5%. Most people in a crowd wont notice and miss what's not there. The flip side of that is; when it is there and well represented, it's a pretty damn awesome experience.
And... not too many mobile DJ's have the equipment to compete with the bottom end of a tuba.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Raphael
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 9:08 am

Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#13 Post by Raphael » Mon May 18, 2020 8:23 am

Grant Bunter wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:57 pm
Raphael wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:45 pm
I like physics :)

Although I am worried the tuba 60’s will be too big for transport and storage. I’m not set on any size per se but compactness will come into play with certain venues. I guess I can build a few different boxes but I would prefer investing in a system I can just scale as needed.

That said. Im a DJ and a bit clueless:) but I’m not stubborn, I truly appreciate the info.

- Are the titans a no go for edm? (They sure are sexy)
- can the t60’s be configured in a stubbier profile? (Call me a dreamer)

-
:) The T48 I mentioned earlier is a Titan, so, go back and have another read with that new info.

The only variable in any sub build is width.

So we can try and keep on track with what we're telling you, what do you move your gear around in, or propose to move your gear around in?

Grant: Gotcha. Transport was a 10x15 enclosed trailer. (Sold now, was only one axle) I’m unsure if I will do a dual axle trailer a step up in size or a box truck.

SethRocksYou wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:48 am
Raphael wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:45 pm
Are the titans a no go for edm?
That depends on your personal opinion. Are you happy with the bass response you get with the HPR 18's? If so, Titans will suit you just fine, especially the T48. However, if you want to cover the low-low stuff, Tuba's are your only real choice in the speaker line-up here.

Personally, I highly crave strong representation of the bottom octave. I've recently built a T39 for live music rehearsal's and small venues. I've tested/played a lot of recorded content through it. After a good bit of trying different EQing and crossover settings (by ear, haven't EQ'd with the RTA yet), it's pretty awesome for 90% of the music in my library, not bad for 5%, and completely incapable of playing the bottom notes on the last 5%. Most people in a crowd wont notice and miss what's not there. The flip side of that is; when it is there and well represented, it's a pretty damn awesome experience.
And... not too many mobile DJ's have the equipment to compete with the bottom end of a tuba.
Seth: I like the HPR’s and the QSC sound in general compared to the other options of plug and play DJ easy mode Options out there but I know that there is no comparison to the sound that will rain down with this kind of system.

I’d like it to be the fullest it can be. I want audience members to feel and experience the sound. There is no system in my area like this and want to provide:)

Tom Smit wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:17 pm
Raphael wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 9:45 pm
- can the t60’s be configured in a stubbier profile? (Call me a dreamer)
I would think that the longer profile of the T60 would be easier to handle rather than a box that one can't get their arms around. Also, 2-high vs 2-deep would likely use up the same pack space.

Tom: Ok, i plan on buying the plans this week so I will be able to get actual measurements and material cost.

Just looking at pictures I was taken aback by the size or maybe just the length of the t60,s but your right. The titans are prob like little refrigerators.. my back doesn't like refrigerators.


Thank you all! :D :D :D

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Tom Smit
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Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#14 Post by Tom Smit » Mon May 18, 2020 9:57 am

The titans are prob like little refrigerators.. my back doesn't like refrigerators.
If wheels are installed at one end, the cabs (Titans or Tubas, doesn't matter) become like a self-contained dolly which makes transport easy. The longer design allows for one end to be set on a tailgate, or such, and then the other end is lifted up and moved in.
TomS

Seth
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Re: Hello from Cooperstown NY USA

#15 Post by Seth » Mon May 18, 2020 12:36 pm

Raphael wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 8:23 am
Seth: I like the HPR’s and the QSC sound in general compared to the other options of plug and play DJ easy mode Options out there but I know that there is no comparison to the sound that will rain down with this kind of system.

I’d like it to be the fullest it can be. I want audience members to feel and experience the sound. There is no system in my area like this and want to provide:)
Just to reiterate... Titan's aren't a "no go" for EDM, they'll play most of it fantastically. And, will do so with fewer cabs and/or less power than if you went with Tubas.

"The fullest it can be"... if, by that, you mean you want them to be able to reproduce as much of the content as possible, Tuba 60 is the way to go. They are big and heavy. But, they can be made with wheels to dolly around. Having said that, there are a few guys here that have had T60's and loved them, but have stepped down to T45's for mobile work and they seem to very satisfied with the slight compromise in extension, in favor of ease of handling. Also, T30/45 can be loaded with light weight drivers, further adding to the portability benefit.

T30 vs. T45: My opinion based on logic alone (I have no experience with either, T30 or T45)...
- T45 with wheels on one end seems like it would cart around a little easier with the "handle" end at a comfortable height very similar to a hand truck, less bending over except when laying them down/standing them up.
-T30 able to be V-plated.

Not sure which I'd personally choose. T45 probably.

I look forward to hearing more as your project comes together Raphael. Good luck with it :thumbsup: Keep us posted
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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