Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

Message
Author
User avatar
HarleyM
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:31 pm
Location: Southern California

Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#1 Post by HarleyM » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:17 am

Hello, I'm a bass guitarist from Southern California! :D
Been reading up about BFM designs and I'm very impressed, not to mention it looks like fun.

I would like to build a bass guitar stack for performance on stage.
My current set up is a solid state class D Crown XLS 1000 power amp (bridged mono at 4Ω 1.1kW) into an Ampeg SVT-410HLF (4Ω 500W RMS).
This set up works adequately with the loud rock band I play with but I would like something better. In small clubs/medium sized bars with no PA support on bass, my rig is at it's limit since the drummer hits very hard. For most medium/small venues, the PA is already taken up by the keys/vox and I'm on my own.

Fortunately my amp can run 2 channels stereo or with crossover at 2Ω550W, 4Ω350W or 8Ω215W.
Figuring out which plans to buy, a single J112 and a T24/30 stacked look like a great setup, or maybe a J212? Or are DR200/250s better for bass guitar? Can anyone point me in the right direction? What are the typical ohm ratings of these speaker configurations? Are tweeter arrays overkill for bass guitar and only a single driver per cab needed outside PA use?

I'll admit I do not have the skills to build a jack lite but I have access to a workshop with a table saw, basic power tools and can purchase a cheap router.
Sorry for all the questions. Thank you :)

User avatar
LelandCrooks
Posts: 7225
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 9:36 am
Location: Midwest/Kansas/Speaker Nirvana
Contact:

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#2 Post by LelandCrooks » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:10 am

Pair of Jack 12's. Scalable, easy tote.
Or an Omni full range, comparable in size to what you have now.
If it's too loud, you're even older than me! Like me.
http://www.speakerhardware.com

Ryan Sober
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:34 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#3 Post by Ryan Sober » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:24 am

As an alternative, for an easier build, you could do an OmniTop12 and a Titan39 or Titan48 in the same width.

You would never have trouble being heard with that setup!

User avatar
HarleyM
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:31 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#4 Post by HarleyM » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:28 pm

LelandCrooks wrote:Pair of Jack 12's. Scalable, easy tote.
Or an Omni full range, comparable in size to what you have now.
That's my thought too :) . This SVT 410 is a pain up and down stairs.
Ryan Sober wrote:As an alternative, for an easier build, you could do an OmniTop12 and a Titan39 or Titan48 in the same width.

You would never have trouble being heard with that setup!
Reading http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=358, it does seem the Titan would be a better choice than the Tuba for bass guitar after all.

It appears the Jack is the successor to the Omni, are they comparable?
How hard is it to scale the width to match a bottom and top? I would really love an uniformly ≈23" stack to put a rack unit on top.

Ryan Sober
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:34 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#5 Post by Ryan Sober » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:51 pm

HarleyM wrote: Reading http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=358, it does seem the Titan would be a better choice than the Tuba for bass guitar after all.

It appears the Jack is the successor to the Omni, are they comparable?
How hard is it to scale the width to match a bottom and top? I would really love an uniformly ≈23" stack to put a rack unit on top.
The cabinet on the OT12 is 21" wide. You could triple-stack the left and right sides to get 23", if you aren't extremely concerned with adding some extra weight.

A Titan39 can be loaded with a 12" driver and built at 23".

A Titan48 could be loaded with a 12" or 15" driver, built at 23".

User avatar
Bill Fitzmaurice
Site Admin
Posts: 26945
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#6 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:07 pm

Standard racks are 20 inches wide. So are the airhead versions of our cabs.
A separate top/sub is fine if you always use them together, but it's not a scaleable rig, you can't leave one piece at home when you don't need the output.

User avatar
HarleyM
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:31 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#7 Post by HarleyM » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:14 pm

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:Standard racks are 20 inches wide. So are the airhead versions of our cabs.
A separate top/sub is fine if you always use them together, but it's not a scaleable rig, you can't leave one piece at home when you don't need the output.
Ahh thank you, the specs for my Gator case must be including the wheels and handle etc.
That's a really good point. Is there a top/sub combo where the top would be adequate on it's own for small gigs, like possibly a J12/Sub combo?

User avatar
Bill Fitzmaurice
Site Admin
Posts: 26945
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#8 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:33 pm

HarleyM wrote:s there a top/sub combo where the top would be adequate on it's own for small gigs, like possibly a J12/Sub combo?
You could do that. It would be best, though, with a bi-amp rig.

User avatar
HarleyM
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:31 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#9 Post by HarleyM » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:26 pm

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
HarleyM wrote:s there a top/sub combo where the top would be adequate on it's own for small gigs, like possibly a J12/Sub combo?
You could do that. It would be best, though, with a bi-amp rig.
Great, my amp has a highpass/lowpass crossover for two separate channels. I'm not sure if that's as good as true bi amping though.

User avatar
Bill Fitzmaurice
Site Admin
Posts: 26945
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#10 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:42 pm

HarleyM wrote: Great, my amp has a highpass/lowpass crossover for two separate channels. I'm not sure if that's as good as true bi amping though.
That is true bi-amping. It needs to be able to crossover in the vicinity of 100Hz.

User avatar
HarleyM
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:31 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#11 Post by HarleyM » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:26 am

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
HarleyM wrote: Great, my amp has a highpass/lowpass crossover for two separate channels. I'm not sure if that's as good as true bi amping though.
That is true bi-amping. It needs to be able to crossover in the vicinity of 100Hz.
Thanks Bill, you're a huge help! :cowboy:

User avatar
DJPhatman
Posts: 5412
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:08 am
Location: Warren, MI
Contact:

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#12 Post by DJPhatman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:51 am

LelandCrooks wrote:Pair of Jack 12's. Scalable, easy tote.
Or an Omni full range, comparable in size to what you have now.
+1. There's no sense making your rig overly complicated. Build 2 Jack 1x12s and 1 Jack 2x12. Or 4 Jack 12 Lights. Loaded with the 3012HO, and let them scream for you!
HarleyM wrote:For most medium/small venues, the PA is already taken up by the keys/vox and I'm on my own.
Why? Is there only 4 channels? If the drummer is a heavy-handed animal and the drums are mic'd, there needs to be an open mixer channel for bass.
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

User avatar
HarleyM
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:31 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#13 Post by HarleyM » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:47 pm

DJPhatman wrote:
LelandCrooks wrote:Pair of Jack 12's. Scalable, easy tote.
Or an Omni full range, comparable in size to what you have now.
+1. There's no sense making your rig overly complicated. Build 2 Jack 1x12s and 1 Jack 2x12. Or 4 Jack 12 Lights. Loaded with the 3012HO, and let them scream for you!
HarleyM wrote:For most medium/small venues, the PA is already taken up by the keys/vox and I'm on my own.
Why? Is there only 4 channels? If the drummer is a heavy-handed animal and the drums are mic'd, there needs to be an open mixer channel for bass.
That does make sense, but would something like one J112 + J212 really push more bass than my current Ampeg 410?

I'm not sure but usually most of the PAs are very small, something like 2 JBL 15s and a sub. I don't have a chance to look at their mixer but most sound guys at shows I've played don't seem to prioritize micing up or even DIing the bass. We don't even get a sound check so it's nice to know I'm at least set on my own. :fingers:

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6803
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#14 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:55 pm

HarleyM wrote:most sound guys at shows I've played don't seem to prioritize micing up or even DIing the bass. We don't even get a sound check so it's nice to know I'm at least set on my own. :fingers:
Probably because most bass players are so loud that adding it to the PA in a small room isn't worth the trouble.

Personally, I always want everything in my mixes and try to get those who play too loud to turn down. If I'm not successful, I just take it out of the mix and feel musically frustrated for the rest of the night.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

User avatar
HarleyM
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:31 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: Hello and bass guitar stack questions :)

#15 Post by HarleyM » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:00 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:
HarleyM wrote:most sound guys at shows I've played don't seem to prioritize micing up or even DIing the bass. We don't even get a sound check so it's nice to know I'm at least set on my own. :fingers:
Probably because most bass players are so loud that adding it to the PA in a small room isn't worth the trouble.

Personally, I always want everything in my mixes and try to get those who play too loud to turn down. If I'm not successful, I just take it out of the mix and feel musically frustrated for the rest of the night.
I agree completely. My trouble is, our drummer hammers extremely hard, all the time. I would love to get the drummer to soften up but getting drummers to do anything you want seems impossible. Always seems like the weak link. We're lucky if he shows up, let alone finding anyone else.

Post Reply