Howdy From Granbury, Tx - Need Opinions

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rlejr
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:09 pm

Howdy From Granbury, Tx - Need Opinions

#1 Post by rlejr » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:32 am

Hi,
I'm a lead guitar player, live and studio mix engineer and an old school rocker. I'm not happy unless I'm planning or in the middle of a project. When common sense and my skill set apply, I like nothing more than building something better and cheaper than I can buy it. I've built/assembled houses, furniture, guitar cabinets, 500 series studio preamps, component guitars, midi floor controllers, tactile transducer platforms.....and on and on. I'm really jazzed about building some kick-ass mains/subs that stand out above the average ilk pushed by guitar center and the like.

I'm a member of a classic rock band (drums, keys, bass, electric and acoustic guitars). We have an excellent sounding (Behringer X-32 core and Midas DL32) rehearsal system that I want to dual purpose for a live rig. I want to build a set of Fitzmaurice cabs/subs for our mains. We all use IEMs with a Behringer P-16 system and will continue with that for the live setup, so no stage amps (all instruments will be DI). We will be playing indoor and outdoor gigs up to 300 people. I expect some of our crowd to be within 30 feet, but definitely not the majority. Our crowds won't be into ear splitting loudness, but don't want the output to be wimpy either. I will need to stack or pole mount rather than fly the tops. Size and weight of cabs is a factor, olds guys with bad knees, backs and ankles so smaller and lighter is better. I want the best quality of sound possible meeting the above criteria that can handle clarity, separation and punch with the entire band playing/singing through only those mains/subs.

Based on my review of the website and forum. I'm thinking 2-DR 280s on pole stands and 2-Titan 39s.

If you were in my shoes, what would you recommend for the cabs/subs and bang for the buck amplification (1U amps if possible)?

Thanks in advance for your input.
Ross Elliott

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Chris_Allen
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Location: Huddersfield, UK

Re: Howdy From Granbury, Tx - Need Opinions

#2 Post by Chris_Allen » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:07 pm

Hi Ross,

Welcome to the forum.

The DR280 is a great cab but it's really a match for a pair of T39's, it will easily out power them but will give you a lower crossover point. Since you aren't likely to drive the cabs to their maximum, it will just mean you have a lot of headroom in your tops.

My personal experience with the DR's (and the OTs and Jacks for that matter) is that two per side is much better than one. The higher array height gives a flatter response and better vertical dispersion. I might be tempted by 2x OT12's per side instead - it will cost you more in drivers and materials but it will scale better and is a much easier build.

The Lab12/3012LF are the drivers you should be looking at for the T39s. If you don't always have a sack cart, integrated wheels are the way to go.

Do you have any speaker management?

If you want to run a minimum number of amps, don't be afraid to go mono.

Chris.
Built:
6xDR200, 2xT39, 2xT48, 2xJack110, 1xOmni10.5, 1xAutotuba, 1xT18, 1xSLA Pro, 1xW8, 1xW10

rlejr
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Re: Howdy From Granbury, Tx - Need Opinions

#3 Post by rlejr » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:01 pm

Thanks Chris,
From my small and light objective, increasing the cabs needed to 6 is something I wanted to avoid. However, if I can't avoid it then so be it. Is there any 4 cab BF solution recommendation that might meet my criteria?

I guess I assumed the sound quality difference between the DRs and OTs was pretty significant. I'm not afraid of a more difficult build if takes me from Chevy to Cadillac in the sound quality.

Being a studio guy I love stereo, but my live mixing experience has all been mono to FOH. I assumed mono was the common standard preference, thus my approach as well. The X-32 has a RTA function that is suppose to be pretty good. I don't have any crossover gear yet.

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Chris_Allen
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Re: Howdy From Granbury, Tx - Need Opinions

#4 Post by Chris_Allen » Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:52 pm

I just wanted to highlight the benefits of additional cabs, they are by no means a necessity and I often gig at one top per side if that's all the venue/pack space allows.

I have seen other videos where the X32 has been used successfully but dedicated units such as the driverack have the advantage of AutoEQ which is incredibly useful if you play different venues often.

Given the EQ power of the X32, a now thrills amp should be fine but 1U amps can be expensive. The PKN springs to mind and the synq digits have been praised in the past though I have never used either. Would a 4 channel 2U amp such as the Carvin DCM2004L be a better option?
Built:
6xDR200, 2xT39, 2xT48, 2xJack110, 1xOmni10.5, 1xAutotuba, 1xT18, 1xSLA Pro, 1xW8, 1xW10

Grant Bunter
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Re: Howdy From Granbury, Tx - Need Opinions

#5 Post by Grant Bunter » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:09 pm

G'day Ross,
Welcome to the forum :)

I'm 5'9" and about 190lbs and can deadlift my 20" wide T39's to stack them for storage.
On wheels, they are extraordinarily easy to handle.
3012lf loaded is the go with your criteria, the lab12 weighs about 14lbs more than 3012lf (The lab 12 and the 3012lf are premium recommended drivers).

There's perhaps no discernable difference in sound quality between the DR series and the Otops series.
What is different is sensitivity, therefore output. DR's have higher average SPL, around 2-3dB above Otops.
By and large, with either, usual comments include "Clear", "Crisp", "great definition" etc

The DR280, for many people, is not a one man lift.
I regularly put up DR250's by myself.
DR250's are physically smaller, with smaller, lighter drivers. Again, more towards your criteria.

Having said that (and not doubting what you've done in the past) the Otops are a simpler therefore faster build. The DR series take longer to build.
We will be playing indoor and outdoor gigs up to 300 people
From my small and light objective, increasing the cabs needed to 6 is something I wanted to avoid
2 x DR 250's or Otop 12's and a pair of T39's will cover you indoors.
Build your T39's as wide as you can carry in regards to pack space, to maximise output.
Though, to maximise ply sheet count, 23 7/8" wide cabs works best. That's what forum member Bruce Weldy came up with.
Outdoors is your potential issue. The recommended sub:tops ratio outdoor is 2:1.
That brings you back to 6 cabs.

The XLS drivecore series are very light, though 2RU sized amps.

You absolutely positively need a brick wall limiter for these cabs (subs in particular), to protect drivers. In my mind, the best all in one option in 1RU is the DBX driverack series, for RTA, EQ, crossover, and brick wall limiter. So you need to factor that into your expenses.

Speaking of Bruce, please contact him (via PM). He's only a few hours down the road from you in New Braunfels. I'm sure he would be happy to demo his rig (Otops and T39's). Then you get a great idea of how such a system can sound, and what it can do :) ...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Bruce Weldy
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Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Howdy From Granbury, Tx - Need Opinions

#6 Post by Bruce Weldy » Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:51 pm

Howdy from New Braunfels.....

I'm doing what you want to do......old guys playing rock and blues - all direct (stage monitors, not in-ears).

For the size you describe, build what I have....4 OTop12s and 4 T39s. If you really have to have only two tops, then build the OTop212......but honestly, that's just the same as building two single tops and the singles are way easier to move around...and they stack nicely on stands.

I run 6 subs when I do big shows for several hundred people outside. 4 will probably do you fine for what you describe. And inside two might be enough, depending on the room.

The OTop12 is a really good form factor. I've never heard the DRs - I understand they are great and if I was flying 'em, that would be a different story. I like that the OT12 is square and stacks so well with no angles to deal with ..... plus, they are a much easier build.

Oh....and they sound amazing.

If you want, send me a PM with your email address and I can send you links to some video of my setup in action and you can get an idea of what they actually sound like.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

rlejr
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:09 pm

Re: Howdy From Granbury, Tx - Need Opinions

#7 Post by rlejr » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:04 pm

Chris, Grant and Bruce,
Thanks for the friendly welcome and all the great info. You guys have given me a lot more to go read up on.
Just what I was hoping for.

Bruce...since you've already blazed a similar trail I'd be a fool not to take you up on your offer.
Will send you a pm.

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Tom Smit
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Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: Howdy From Granbury, Tx - Need Opinions

#8 Post by Tom Smit » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:43 am

Welcome to the forum!

Otop12, or, if you want a bit more adventure, DR200. A pair per side makes for a sweeter sound. Whichever route you go, make sure that the (bottom) cab has the melded piezo array for the listeners within 30 ft.
TomS

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