Greetings From Northern Colorado

[sounddad67]

Hi all! I'm new to this whole speaker building/PA company experience. I own a very tiny sound reinforcement company that is really a fledgling venture. I am competing against several other companies in this area that are running some "way out of my price range" equipment, like FBT line arrays, Meyer cabinets, a couple of EAW line arrays, and who knows what else. Mostly active cabs and the like. I mix everything from bluegrass to death metal, and I need to know, in the esteemed forum's opinion, what the best combination of cabs/subs/tops would be. There is a chance I will have a contract to do several outdoor shows next summer, so I have some time to build the system, but before I make up my mind as to which units to build, I'd like some feedback. Most of the shows I mix are smaller, 300-500 people, in relatively confined spaces, approximately 50 ft by 150 ft, but the gigs next summer will possibly be up to 1500+ people and an area that is perhaps 300 by 500 feet. I also do quite a bit of indoor work at various local nightclubs, but those are not as crucial, as most of them have passable house systems. As you can probably guess, I'm on a very limited budget, so I need a system that will give me the most literal band for the buck, and can be flexible enough to use in a myriad of venues. Total newbie here, admittedly, but I learn quickly when it comes to sound, and I would love to absorb the collective knowledge of this forum. If you need additional info to help me make my decision, don't hesitate to ask. Thanks for your time!
Regards,
Chris

[67baja]

Welcome!

Read, read, and then read some more.

Here is my take on what you want/need:

If you are only doing live sound, build T39 subs. Start with 2 or 4, and add more cabs as the crowd size increases. If you are playing recorded music, build T30s or T60s.

For tops, the DR250s are the best, but the build is more technical and they require more EQing than the Otops. The DR series tops are quite inexpensive to build too. Otop 12s would be the next best tops and are an easier build, require less EQ, but the price to build is higher than the DRs. You will need 2 DRs or Otops for indoors and up to 8 for a big outdoor event.

Generally, the ratio of tops to subs is 1:2.

[Grant Bunter]

Hi soundad67.
Welcome to the forum...
Equally important as knowing what you want from your system is "what are you like with woodwork?"

To answer the first part (for live sound): If you are doing your smaller gigs and 45Hz is low enough, T39's are great. I built my pair with BP102's and that cost me around $700AU, but you can get Premium drivers cheaper than we can in Australia, and I would recommend going that way. If you can stretch your budget for premium drivers in all your builds, I recommend that.
Once you get to 4 x T39's, you can HP at 40hz.
I will add that I can physically pick up one of my T39's by myself, as in dead lift it one on top of another for storage. This is not something you can do with 18" dual loaded direct radiator subs.

If you require 40Hz with 2 cabs then the T48 is the way to go.

Either of those two cabs IMO are "friendlier" than the T60 in terms of pack space.

If you're in a hurry to get the builds done, then Otops are faster than DR's. I'm currently building a pair of DR250's, and it's taking quite a while. I'm not a novice woodworker, but I am a novice pro cab builder (other than direct radiators, which are, compared to these builds, very simple).

That brings me to woodworking. Do you have much experience there?
And a fair stock of tools? You need at least a circular saw, jigsaw, a drill and it's better if you also have a cordless drill. Pluses are bench saw, router and compound mitre saw.

Some of the cabs are available through Leland at speakerhardware.com (who is a member here)
as flat packs and that may save some time, but of course raises cost.

The reason these cabs are so cheap compared to commercial cabs is because you can DIY them.

You also need to know from the outset that you will need some method of limiting and high passing subs to protect drivers, so there's more electronics to factor into budget as well.

By the way, if you're a '67 fella, then we are roughly the same age and I'm doing much the same as you, just not quite to the same scale.

Finally, don't mess with single plans, buy the CD!!

Hope this helps...

[Tom Smit]

Hi Chris, and welcome to the forum.

For subs, I would suggest T39 since 4 cabs that are coupled and V-plated will be able to be high-passed at 40 hz and don't occupy anymore floor space than a pair of T48 cabs that are v-coupled and plated (only a taller stack). You'll need 8 cabs for the big event next year (4/side).

+1 on getting the CD of plans.

DR250 if you are able to finesse tham in your building experience. With a system like this, you might find that you have to throttle back just to keep the volume right...and at the same time have a sweet sound.

+1 on getting the proper processing equipment for cross-overs, limiters, delay......

Did you read all of this? Some very good info there.

[sounddad67]

Baja, Grant and Tom, thanks for your input. Grant, to answer some of your questions, I have some experience with woodworking, I've built a china hutch and a shoji screen for my wife, but I'd hardly say I'm an expert. I do have a circular saw, a cordless drill and a jig saw, so that part is covered, and my dad, who lives a block away from me, has the table saw and any other tool that I might need. So.... it sounds like the consensus is for the T39s and Otops or D250s. Is the CD Mac compatible?
Some further questions:
What kind of power am I going to need to drive the system? Right now, all I have is a Mackie FR1400 and a Phonic 1600 for power amps. I realize I'm probably going to have to relegate those to backup power or use as monitor amps. That's fine, but I would like to know what the forum's recommendations are for making these things really shake the ground.
Also, being the antithesis of a math genius, I am a little unclear (understatement of the century) as to how daisy chaining works to affect impedance and amp output. Can someone direct me to a tutorial (in layman's terms) on how things like bridged mono vs. stereo and such affect the amp output?
Thanks all!
Chris

[Tom Smit]

This Rane link will may swell your head with a whole whack of info.

For figuring out amps, ohms, volts, and watts, check out the whole page on this one http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslawcalculators.asp

For figuring out total impedance for parallel, or for series wiring http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/boxcalcs.asp#ser

[Grant Bunter]

The short answer to how much power you need to run these designs kinda comes back to your choices.
I'll explain:
I've just recently posted a question here in the forum about the Crown XLS1000 being able to drive a pair of DR250's. The answer is yes. Will it drive 4. Yes. Because it can run 2 cabs (on each channel) in parallel for a 4 ohm load. The Crown XLS1000 may be a little light on, but hellish loud is hellish loud.

For your subs, the answer will depend on your driver selection as to how much amp power you will need. My amp (for subs) is capable of 450W/4 ohms per channel. That requires a 6dB limit on the output of my processor to protect my driver choice. Your selection may require a different option in terms of amp.

One thing is certain. Bill's designs are highly efficient and require less amp power for more/greater output than most commercial cabs. As well as savings in cab costs (as earlier explained as it's DIY) that means savings in amps costs as well.

At this stage, don't sweat the "smaller" details. Learn as you go along! Much better than early overload

Just decide what you want in terms out sub and tops output, how much time you have, etc...

[sounddad67]

Is it better to have a rackmount limiter/gate or to include limiting circutry in each cabinet? Wow, thanks for the links Tom! I think my head might 'splode with all of the info.

[Tom Smit]

These would be the only limiter to put in a cab. However, most use a Driverack PA or PA plus, or a Behringer DCX2496, in the rack.

[jswingchun]

My system is Crown Xti1000 for 4 OT12's loaded with DeltaLite 2510s. Crown Xti2000 for 4 T39s loaded with 3012lfs. I run two cabs off each side of each amp. That's a great power to speaker box setup. I also have three Wedgehorn 8's and a Crown XLS1000 for monitors. I use the Behringer DCX2496 crossover for both it's crossover and hard limiting features. I use the Behringer DEQ2496 for room tweaking, feedback control and initial RTA of the system.

It is a great system. Very modular and no extra stuff. I bought the Xti's before the XLS series came out. If I were buying now I would get the XLS since I don't need the processing available in Xti's.

Building your first system you could get by with one XLS 2500, use one side for two subs and the other side throttled back for two tops. Add more amps and cabs as necessary.