From Puerto Rico

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gdougherty
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Re: From Puerto Rico

#16 Post by gdougherty »

Zack Brock wrote:Gorilla Glue is not suitable glue for use in Bill's cabinets as it does not create an airtight seal. If you can get PL Premium somewhere in Puerto Rico or from Leland @ SpeakerHardware.com, buy it and use it!

If on the other hand you are an expert wood craftsman who makes perfect cuts and joints, then you are welcome to even use plain ol' wood glue.
Don't know what planet you live on, but Gorilla Glue is very adequate and IMO, easier to work with. I've tried building with PL and I prefer not needing to spread the stuff or being required to put everything together with screws to get good clamping force on each joint. Gorilla, Elmers Ultimate and Sumo glue expand noticeably more than PL by volume and I've got airtight seals on every joint of 23 BFM cabs I've built over the last 3 years. The only requirement is that the glue must be of the expanding polyurethane type.

Also, even if you are an experienced woodworker, wood glue isn't recommended. Bill, Harley, and many others have plenty of experience, good skills and still use PL Premium or other expanding polyurethane type glues.

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Zack Brock
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Re: From Puerto Rico

#17 Post by Zack Brock »

gdougherty wrote: Don't know what planet you live on, but Gorilla Glue is very adequate and IMO, easier to work with. I've tried building with PL and I prefer not needing to spread the stuff or being required to put everything together with screws to get good clamping force on each joint. Gorilla, Elmers Ultimate and Sumo glue expand noticeably more than PL by volume and I've got airtight seals on every joint of 23 BFM cabs I've built over the last 3 years. The only requirement is that the glue must be of the expanding polyurethane type.

Also, even if you are an experienced woodworker, wood glue isn't recommended. Bill, Harley, and many others have plenty of experience, good skills and still use PL Premium or other expanding polyurethane type glues.
Thank you for your input gdougherty.

Gorilla Glue is indeed an expanding polyurethane glue, however, I disagree with you that it is appropriate to use and believe it to be inadequate at best for Bill's cabinet designs. If it is all you have, and your choice is Gorilla versus Elmer's wood glue, go for the Gorilla for sure. But it is no comparison to PL Premium.

It expands a lot, too much in my opinion - approximately two to three times what PL expands and therefore has a lot of room for air holes due to the rapid expansion. Gorilla Glue is a very 'foamy' glue that doesn't have much tensile strength and does not resist shearing very well (necessary for the butt joints in Bill's cabs). It is a lot like the "Great Stuff" expanding foam you can buy in cans - very sticky but not very strong.

In comparison to PL Premium, Gorilla Glue is just plain weak. A Gorilla Glue bond will break cleanly (the glue itself breaks, the wood stays intact) however a PL Premium bond will rip the wood apart when you try to separate the two bonded pieces. PL Premium is a much stronger glue. PL Premium also remains flexible permanently but Gorilla Glue does not, as it will just flake or break apart when under stress.

I stick by my assertion that Gorilla Glue is not suitable for building these cabinets. That being said, there are several types of Gorilla Glue out there - one of them is a construction type adhesive that does cure very similar to PL Premium but it is hecka expensive in comparison. The construction version might be suitable if it is all you can find.

Comments from others, Bill and Leland included, that backup my opinions and experience:
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 18#p110818
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 75#p102175
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 76#p102176
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 998#p73998
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 180#p53180

Bill has also confirmed in the past that if you are an excellent woodworker, you are welcome to use regular wood glue as long as you make perfect cuts that are airtight.
Zack Brock
Authorized Builder, Northeast Florida (Greater Jacksonville Area)
WavePulse Acoustics | zackbrock@macpulse.com | http://www.bestbasscabs.com/

Sydney

Re: From Puerto Rico

#18 Post by Sydney »

Talk about a tempest in a gluepot :wink:
As long as an expanding polyurethane adhesive that fills gaps is being used, what's the big deal.

FWIW: I started using PL about 16 years ago along with other urethane caulks.
And I have been using G glue for as long as was available.
I have not had failed or "flakey" joints so I can't add to the anecdotes.

Syd

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LelandCrooks
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Re: From Puerto Rico

#19 Post by LelandCrooks »

Zack Brock wrote:Thank you for your input gdougherty.

Gorilla Glue is indeed an expanding polyurethane glue, however, I disagree with you that it is appropriate to use and believe it to be inadequate at best for Bill's cabinet designs. If it is all you have, and your choice is Gorilla versus Elmer's wood glue, go for the Gorilla for sure. But it is no comparison to PL Premium.

It expands a lot, too much in my opinion - approximately two to three times what PL expands and therefore has a lot of room for air holes due to the rapid expansion. Gorilla Glue is a very 'foamy' glue that doesn't have much tensile strength and does not resist shearing very well (necessary for the butt joints in Bill's cabs). It is a lot like the "Great Stuff" expanding foam you can buy in cans - very sticky but not very strong.

In comparison to PL Premium, Gorilla Glue is just plain weak. A Gorilla Glue bond will break cleanly (the glue itself breaks, the wood stays intact) however a PL Premium bond will rip the wood apart when you try to separate the two bonded pieces. PL Premium is a much stronger glue. PL Premium also remains flexible permanently but Gorilla Glue does not, as it will just flake or break apart when under stress.

I stick by my assertion that Gorilla Glue is not suitable for building these cabinets. That being said, there are several types of Gorilla Glue out there - one of them is a construction type adhesive that does cure very similar to PL Premium but it is hecka expensive in comparison. The construction version might be suitable if it is all you can find.

Comments from others, Bill and Leland included, that backup my opinions and experience:
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 18#p110818
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 75#p102175
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 76#p102176
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 998#p73998
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 180#p53180

Bill has also confirmed in the past that if you are an excellent woodworker, you are welcome to use regular wood glue as long as you make perfect cuts that are airtight.
+1. Brittle joint. Not suitable for something that will take an impact, such as dropping a cab. I hear their new white glue is excellent.
If it's too loud, you're even older than me! Like me.
http://www.speakerhardware.com

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Harley
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Re: From Puerto Rico

#20 Post by Harley »

Sydney wrote:As long as expanding polyurethane adhesive that fills gaps is being used, what's the big deal.
Here, we can get expanding polyurethane glue in two varieties;

One is in a liquid form that looks and acts like honey. It's hopeless for BFM builds APART from gluing in Tee Nuts.

The other is in a tube that you use with a 'gunk gun', and 'oozes' - which is what most people here are familiar with and is the bee's knees for BFM builds.

Not trying to split hairs here but the are expanding polyurethane adhesives and then there are other expanding polyurethane adhesives
ImageSemi-retired: Former Australia and New Zealand Authorised BFM cab builder.

Gregory East
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Re: From Puerto Rico

#21 Post by Gregory East »

I hope you're right Harley, I stocked up on 1hr cure Gorilla stuff in a tube. It doesn't seem to ooze/expand much but it's nothing like honey. It's clear.

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