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cracker75
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warning! really long post

#1 Post by cracker75 »

Hi everybody,

I just wanted to introduce myself and explain what's brought me here.

7 weeks ago I ordered two cabs from Marc Serio at Dr. Bass. Here are some pics:

Image

The top one is a 1080, loaded with a Eminence BP102, an Alpha 8 MR, and a QSL tweeter of some kind. The bottom one is a 112 loaded with an Delta 12LFA, and a Selenium tweeter.

Considering Marc's well-earned reputation for untimely delivery, I took a calculated risk ordering some used/demo cabs, since they were already built, I figured I had a pretty good chance of receiving them. At the time I also asked if he would re-wire them to bi-amp with my GK head.

He became almost impossible to reach after I paid him, to the point when I could only get him to answer the phone if I always called from a different number. The process was excruciating. First, the 3-way x-over had to be "custom-made" to work with the GK. Then he began working less because his gall-bladder had recently been removed. Then a family member comitted suicide, and lastly, as I was in the process of filing a dispute with my credit card company, he decided that the 10" in the 1080 was sounding a "little tired" and he wanted to upgrade it to the BP102. This driver was rated at a lower wattage than the spec one, so we talked about upgrading the 112 to a 500W driver to get a little more headroom. I thought this was just more stalling tactics, but miraculously, he shipped them 4 days later, with not only upgraded drivers, but he claims to have replaced the mid in the 1080 and the diaphram in the tweeter on it too.

Over the years Marc's cabs have received excellent reviews, so I figured that if I recieved them at all, they would likely rock.

More fool I.

Upon opening them, them 1080 had a miserable distortion at any level, and the 112 didn't work at all. After some examination, the 1080 did not have a "custom" x-over, but instead he had simply taken the tweeter leads off the board and attached them to pins 2+ and 1- on the speakon jack for bi-amping. I posted about this at talkbass, and Bill (Fitzmuarice) mentioned that such an arrangement could present a very low or zero ohm load to the amp which would explain the distortion. I had also A/B'd both new cabs against my Eden Nemesis 210, and the problem did not present itself with that cab. So I have put the tweeter leads back on the board, and the distortion is gone but it now has a nasty hiss.

As far as the 112 is concerned, it didn't work because the woofer leads were not hooked up to the driver, and one of the 1/4" parallel jacks was completely broken. It was also not wired to bi-amp (as promised) and it appears the x-over is only a high pass network, since there is no inductor on the board. I do not know if this is normal.I repaired it, but overall the cab sounds a little farty on any note played on the E string.

So now I am $500 into 2 cabs that sound like garbage. The only warranty offered is to send them back for repair, which I refuse to do because then I will be without cabs and money, and I have no confidence that I would receive either at any future date.

I have just finished a fairly massive repair on my house that involved replacing my kitchen cabinets, some parts of walls and floors, 1/2 my shower, the bathroom vanity, and re-plumbed the entire thing due to water damage from the old plumbing, and am really not too exited about starting any other kind of project anytime soon.

But I need cabs that work.

Also as a moderately skilled hobbiest-carpenter, I have a well-tooled shop, and a good bit of 1/2" apple ply, and various pieces of cabinet-grade 3/4" laying about, which in conjunction with the drivers and miscelaneous hardware in the Dr. Bass cabs would reduce my DIY costs to about zero if I choose to go that route.

At this point my significant other has prohibited any further bass-related purchases (aside from the cabs I also bought a new head and a new bass), so spending more cash to get to where I want to be is out of the question. But I have time and I have materials, and no working cabs right now(I traded the eden 210 to a friend in anticipation of my new one's, and I also have a blown 215).

Bill's designs appeal to me from a sensitivity standpoint, but their complexity is is something I'm worried about undertaking after just finishing up the four month house rebuild.

Since they are so many knowledgable and experienced folks around here, any input you could provide me on getting my cabs to work, or should that fail, which of bill's designs would best suit the drivers I have available, would be greatly appreciated.

I am sorry for the length of this post, but I really have no idea what direction I need to go to get from here to someplace better.

sine143
Posts: 3066
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:27 pm
Location: Raleigh NC

Re: warning! really long post

#2 Post by sine143 »

Whats your application? What type of music do you play, and whats your crowd/space requirement?
Built:
2x Tuba 30s delta12lf loaded (gone)
4x Otop12 d2512 loaded
8x t48s (18, 18, 24, 24, 30, 30) 3015lf loaded
2x AT (1 mcm, 1 gto 804)
2x SLA Pro (dayton pa6, 6 goldwood piezo loaded)
1x bastard XF208

2x OT212 (delta pro 450a loaded, eminence psd)

SeisTres
Posts: 2689
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:53 am
Location: Dallas, tx

Re: warning! really long post

#3 Post by SeisTres »

alpha 8 and delta 12lf seems to be candidates for the omni 12. Simple build, and heck, you might even use some of the components from the cabs. If you want it for bass, I think you can leave out the tweeter from the omni 12.

Or yo could do a titan 39 with the delta 12 but then you would need a top, but the bp102 won't be able to do a top. But it could be used in a slim titan.
Built:6 t39, t18, 4 Jack10, 2 autotuba, 2 SLA,2 wedge, 2 TT, 2 Tritrix, curved sla, 2 otop212, 2 SLA pros, Ported 8" sub, 2 ported 210, dual ported 8" sub

cracker75
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: warning! really long post

#4 Post by cracker75 »

sine143 wrote:Whats your application? What type of music do you play, and whats your crowd/space requirement?

Good question. Mostly I'm just jamming with friends right now, no real band to speak of, though most of the drummers I meet are pretty loud. I definitely want something that gives me the headroom to not get buried by the drummer.

If I end up playing out, I live in a small rural town, and most of the venues are equally small.

In terms of tone, I gravitate towards heavy low end, dub style bass playing, but covers force a lot of different tones, so I do whatever the song needs.

If I had any thoughts about BFM cabs, I would be leaning towards an omni 12 and possibly a tuba 24 (if it performs well with the BP102)......That's about as far as I've gotten.

I will probably just buy the plans soon, just to see what the build looks like in real terms, and then decide.

cracker75
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: warning! really long post

#5 Post by cracker75 »

Also, my amp is a GK 1001rb, 540W@4 ohms. Bi-amp at 540W(low) 40W (high).

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DJPhatman
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Re: warning! really long post

#6 Post by DJPhatman »

cracker75 wrote:Also, my amp is a GK 1001rb, 540W@4 ohms. Bi-amp at 540W(low) 40W (high).
The crossover is useless on the 1001rb, as far as BFM cabs are concerned. I think an Omni 12TB will fill your needs. Not sure about your plywood. If it has a thin outer veneer, it's NFG. 1/2" is all that's needed, 3/4" is never recommended here. I think your only cost will be crossover components.

You may want to re-consider scavenging parts from your cabs. They are worth more on the used market whole and loaded, so you would be able to buy proper drivers and parts for a proper build. I think you will be better served fixing and selling the Dr. Bass cabs, and use the proceeds to fund 2 J110s. Light, portable and loud. Use both for stupid loud.
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

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Gauss
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Re: warning! really long post

#7 Post by Gauss »

FIrst question: Were you the one who blew out the 2x15 cab?
AudioFlyer DJ: DR200 & Titan39/Titan48
BASS: Combo Amp & Titan39

cracker75
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: warning! really long post

#8 Post by cracker75 »

DJPhatman wrote: The crossover is useless on the 1001rb, as far as BFM cabs are concerned. I think an Omni 12TB will fill your needs. Not sure about your plywood. If it has a thin outer veneer, it's NFG. 1/2" is all that's needed, 3/4" is never recommended here. I think your only cost will be crossover components.

You may want to re-consider scavenging parts from your cabs. They are worth more on the used market whole and loaded, so you would be able to buy proper drivers and parts for a proper build. I think you will be better served fixing and selling the Dr. Bass cabs, and use the proceeds to fund 2 J110s. Light, portable and loud. Use both for stupid loud.
As far as the wood is concerned, is the good-stuff. 7-ply. I use it to make drawers. The pretty veneer woods I have laying around are not burly enough.

I As far as selling the Dr. Bass cabs, I couldn't, in good conscious sell them to anyone. And if I pay someone to repair them first, I'm even farther away from breakeven.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In regards to the 215....It was an old project (another long story), built to look good rather than sound good. I'm thinking of making it into a coffee table because there's no way to salvage it sonically...I blew it playing slap with the bass too high.

If you're curious : Solid TnG Clear Fir body and rear baffle, 1/2 lapped Mahogany front baffle:



Image

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Zack Brock
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Re: warning! really long post

#9 Post by Zack Brock »

Considering you sought out DR BASS cabs in that configuration, I suggest two Jack 12's, full tweeter arrays with switches for full/half/off on the tweeters as your bass rig. Bill himself has suggested that the Jack 12 might be the best bass guitar cab he's designed so far. I have four Jack 10's that I use as demo's and my bass sounds fantastic through them, I can only imagine how much bigger/better my bass would sound through Jack 12's.
Zack Brock
Authorized Builder, Northeast Florida (Greater Jacksonville Area)
WavePulse Acoustics | zackbrock@macpulse.com | http://www.bestbasscabs.com/

cracker75
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: warning! really long post

#10 Post by cracker75 »

After spending a few days lurking here, and reading other people's stories, I've come to the conclusion that some stuffing, sealing, and filter testing may get these cabs good enough for use in the near term. After that I can consider a more relaxed build, which has a lot more appeal.

So some Q's:

This is just a back-line rig. I like things that are modular and therefore easily-transportable, so a J110 and J112 could be the ticket, or either one combined with a small Tuba for more low end extension.

Does anyone here have any opinions of this arrangement for a bass rig, and would the drivers I have be suitable?

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DJPhatman
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Re: warning! really long post

#11 Post by DJPhatman »

For the Jacks, pick a size and stick with it. Build either J110, or J112. Do not mix different cabs reproducing the same frequencies, as this causes comb-filtering and phase issues.

Since you can't bi-amp properly with the G-K head, adding a sub will require a passive crossover. With 2 jacks stacked, a sub is pretty useless, as the jacks are quite strong to 50Hz, more than low enough for back-line bass guitar. The fixed 5kHz crossover makes it nothing more than a sales gimmick. Even the much aligned piezo tweeter crosses over much lower than 5kHz.
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

cracker75
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: warning! really long post

#12 Post by cracker75 »

DJPhatman wrote:For the Jacks, pick a size and stick with it. Build either J110, or J112. Do not mix different cabs reproducing the same frequencies, as this causes comb-filtering and phase issues.

Since you can't bi-amp properly with the G-K head, adding a sub will require a passive crossover. With 2 jacks stacked, a sub is pretty useless, as the jacks are quite strong to 50Hz, more than low enough for back-line bass guitar. The fixed 5kHz crossover makes it nothing more than a sales gimmick. Even the much aligned piezo tweeter crosses over much lower than 5kHz.

Thx DJ. Good info. Stupid question though, if you can stack J110's and you can stack J112's, why can't you stack one of each?

Mostly I'm just trying to get the best use out of these drivers when I'm done. Another possibility would be a J110 and then an Omni12TB. They would stack nicely. Ideally I'd have a 1 box solution for smaller jams, and some kind of "big brother" cab for bigger stuff.

PS: Stupid loud is my idea of a good time.

Thanks again.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: warning! really long post

#13 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

cracker75 wrote:
Thx DJ. Good info. Stupid question though, if you can stack J110's and you can stack J112's, why can't you stack one of each?
Because their phase responses are different. You should never mix different drivers covering the same frequency range, but it's even more critical not to mix horns with different path lengths.

Gregory East
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Re: warning! really long post

#14 Post by Gregory East »

You might be surprised how much you can get for the miswired cabs as they are. I'd list them on Talkbass with the full disclosure. Someone who knows how to put together filters would have them up and running pretty easily.

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Tom Smit
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Re: warning! really long post

#15 Post by Tom Smit »

cracker75 wrote:Mostly I'm just trying to get the best use out of these drivers when I'm done. Another possibility would be a J110 and then an Omni12TB. They would stack nicely. Ideally I'd have a 1 box solution for smaller jams, and some kind of "big brother" cab for bigger stuff.Thanks again.
First-Welcome to the forum!
Now, either build one of the Omni12 in the standard, or the TB fashion (uses your existing drivers), or a pair of J110s, or a pair of J112s. :twisted: (the Jacks need their own driver). With the Jacks, you can bring one or two to the gig. :) In any situation you can always turn down. :ugeek:
TomS

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