Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

Combining subs, tops and all the rest of your kit.
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CarterKraft
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Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#1 Post by CarterKraft » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:14 pm

I have the several of the Tuba plans but I could never get them to fit in the tight spaces I had intended to use them in (marine applications).

I have a itch to build a all out portable speaker for outdoor venues (my daughters Cheer team) High school pep rallys etc. and I had a idea based on a few of the BFM designs melded together.

Can anyone help me out with their thoughts on the output and clarity of this abomination?

It's a Truck tuba with a front compartment for the amps/batteries etc. and houses some Mini SLA PRO's in one cabinet.
This is only a concept design not fully worked out the details yet but I am trying to compete with a https://diamondboxx.com/collections/all ... dized-face.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#2 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:01 pm

You could do that, but putting SLA Pros on top of the sub would project much better, and you could splay them outward for wider coverage. You want the Truck Tuba made to maximum depth, for the lowest extension and output, loaded with a ten. Use auto sound amps for a 12V powered system. This rig would severely bitch slap the Diamond Box, the designer of which doesn't seem to be aware of what Comb Filtering is. :bash:

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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#3 Post by CarterKraft » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:34 pm

Thanks Bill for your review.
Interesting your comment about Comb Filtering on the DiamondBoxx, when I started trying to come up with this design I kept seeing that being mentioned and wondered how they got around it, maybe they didn't.
I'll have to play around with the dimensions some more and see if it will get to unruly being even taller than it already is. I actually thought about doing the Autotuba and putting the Mini SLAPROS on top of that, they could be splayed as needed for wider coverage as you suggest.
IS there much difference between the two Truck vs Auto both with the same 10" driver?

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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#4 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:39 pm

They can't get around comb filtering. Either they don't know why tweeters should be vertical or they're catering to the wants of customers who don't know why tweeters should be vertical. Response of the Truck and Auto is pretty similar. They're just different shapes for different applications. However, keep in mind that they're both intended for use inside a vehicle,which uses cabin gain to fill in the lower octave. A ten loaded T39 will work better than either of them out in the open.

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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#5 Post by SethRocksYou » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:26 pm

Carter,

Having built and used a fairly slim T39 (16", 1" wider than the minimum for a 12" loaded cab) and a pair of shorty 2x6" SLA Pro's... I gotta say, they make a fairly potent system given the size. The T39 came in at just under 60 pounds and it wheels around super easy with the built in casters. Loads in and out of an SUV easily, even for my 70 year young Dad. I put a Top Hat in the top of the T39 to make it easy to put the SLAP's on a pole for small events and rehearsals where there's little need to spread the tops. So, no speaker stand required, it gets the SLA Pro's above standing head level, and the SLA Pro's can be splayed for coverage. I even ran them 180º from each other in a test and the results were better than expected while covering 2 completely different areas quite nicely.

I also built a 2 x 8" loaded TruckTuba that I have yet to install an amp in my car for. So, I've had it hooked up in the garage, along a wall, standing on end, elevated on a couple 2x4's, mouth down firing. It performs fairly well in that space. I haven't played it outdoors though and I suspect it would not keep up with the T39 option.

Size wise, the T39 is 9" taller and just shy of twice as wide as the TruckTuba I built standing on end (built my TruckTuba 8½" wide), yet my TruckTuba with two 8's only weighs about 10 pounds less than the T39 (loaded with 3012LF). The TruckTuba is larger in the 3rd dimension, at 24" vs. 19½" deep for the T39. With the wheels and handles, the T39 is easily more portable.

Are you planning/wanting to go the battery powered route, similar to the product in the link, or would you have 110 AC available?
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

CarterKraft
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#6 Post by CarterKraft » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:49 pm

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:39 pm
They can't get around comb filtering. Either they don't know why tweeters should be vertical or they're catering to the wants of customers who don't know why tweeters should be vertical. Response of the Truck and Auto is pretty similar. They're just different shapes for different applications. However, keep in mind that they're both intended for use inside a vehicle,which uses cabin gain to fill in the lower octave. A ten loaded T39 will work better than either of them out in the open.
I understand what you are saying. To be fair to DiamondBoxx you the cabinet is designed to be played in several orientations, conventional and on each end with built in gyro configuring the drivers/amps for left or right orientation when paired with another $2000 DiamondBoxx...

If we remove the Tuba from the equation how well do you think the Mini SLA PROS with 100w each channel will perform against the DB XL2? I think I am looking for a 2x10" PA type speaker system volume level.

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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#7 Post by CarterKraft » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:57 pm

SethRocksYou wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:26 pm
Carter,

Having built and used a fairly slim T39 (16", 1" wider than the minimum for a 12" loaded cab) and a pair of shorty 2x6" SLA Pro's... I gotta say, they make a fairly potent system given the size. The T39 came in at just under 60 pounds and it wheels around super easy with the built in casters. Loads in and out of an SUV easily, even for my 70 year young Dad. I put a Top Hat in the top of the T39 to make it easy to put the SLAP's on a pole for small events and rehearsals where there's little need to spread the tops. So, no speaker stand required, it gets the SLA Pro's above standing head level, and the SLA Pro's can be splayed for coverage. I even ran them 180º from each other in a test and the results were better than expected while covering 2 completely different areas quite nicely.

I also built a 2 x 8" loaded TruckTuba that I have yet to install an amp in my car for. So, I've had it hooked up in the garage, along a wall, standing on end, elevated on a couple 2x4's, mouth down firing. It performs fairly well in that space. I haven't played it outdoors though and I suspect it would not keep up with the T39 option.

Size wise, the T39 is 9" taller and just shy of twice as wide as the TruckTuba I built standing on end (built my TruckTuba 8½" wide), yet my TruckTuba with two 8's only weighs about 10 pounds less than the T39 (loaded with 3012LF). The TruckTuba is larger in the 3rd dimension, at 24" vs. 19½" deep for the T39. With the wheels and handles, the T39 is easily more portable.

Are you planning/wanting to go the battery powered route, similar to the product in the link, or would you have 110 AC available?
Ideally I was looking to create a cabinet the same size as the DB XL2, a friend just bought one against my suggestion and I would like to show him what a DIY system is capable of. The Tuba/SLAPRO hybrid is a fair bit bigger than the DB XL2 and the T39 sounds like it will be even larger. On paper it looks to be getting too large to be portable (easily). I think the 24"Tx36"Wx12"D Is the absolute biggest it can be.

The Alpha 6 drivers come in a sealed back version and it occurred to me the Tuba could be made wider and allow the woofers and tweeters to be in the throat of the horn, I have no idea if this is a good idea or not though? This would allow the Tuba to be the full width of 12" and 10" loaded vs the 8" I prototyped.

It will definitely need to be battery powered, I planned on using the D Class amps from parts express in the 2.1 200w/100w flavor but as drivers and designs change that may need to change as well.

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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#8 Post by SethRocksYou » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:31 pm

CarterKraft wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:57 pm
Ideally I was looking to create a cabinet the same size as the DB XL2, a friend just bought one against my suggestion and I would like to show him what a DIY system is capable of. The Tuba/SLAPRO hybrid is a fair bit bigger than the DB XL2 and the T39 sounds like it will be even larger. On paper it looks to be getting too large to be portable (easily). I think the Is the absolute biggest it can be.

The Alpha 6 drivers come in a sealed back version and it occurred to me the Tuba could be made wider and allow the woofers and tweeters to be in the throat of the horn, I have no idea if this is a good idea or not though? This would allow the Tuba to be the full width of 12" and 10" loaded vs the 8" I prototyped.

It will definitely need to be battery powered, I planned on using the D Class amps from parts express in the 2.1 200w/100w flavor but as drivers and designs change that may need to change as well.
From a volume (size) standpoint, a 24"Tx36"Wx12"D TruckTuba is 6 cubic feet.
A minimum width (13") T39 loaded with a 10 is 5.7 cubic feet, a little less
And a minimum width (15")T39 loaded with a 12 is 6.6 cubic feet, a little more

So, all three of them are roughly in the same ballpark, overall size wise. However, if you determine that some of the dimensions just wont work, then that's just the way it is.

Bill will have to speak to the sealed-back Alpha's. IIRC, I think he actually has some he's selling as well as Alphalite6 CBMR's at a decent savings, here.

I'm pretty sure if your plan is to stand it on end, you're gonna want the horn mouth pointed at the ground and will need to elevate it a bit... perhaps on a separate stand or built-in legs... which would alter the overall dimensions some.

In either case, I think you'll have an easier time transporting and getting the sound coverage you'll want (by being able to mount them higher on stands) if you build the tops as separate units. But, I think I'm understanding that might not be the image you have in your mind about this project. Could always be a project in the making and progress through different stages as you learn what works for you and what doesn't.

Have you researched what you want to use as batteries to power it all? My mind automatically goes to a deep cycle marine/automotive for something like that. But, they're heavy. Then there's the 12v Sealed Lead Acid batteries they put in Power Wheels and Computer UPS power supplies. But, they are current limited and only store 7-8Ah. So, attaining peak wattage could possibly be a concern as well as usable play time. Or, maybe make your own power pack with protected 18650 cells? Enough of those would be fairly light and depending how many series runs you have, would cover the peak amp draw... but it would require a butt-load to get the storage capacity for extended play time at higher volumes.

What does that other unit use for a battery/ies?
Last edited by SethRocksYou on Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#9 Post by SethRocksYou » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:42 pm

I'd guess they're using something similar to this battery.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

SethRocksYou
Posts: 1184
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Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#10 Post by SethRocksYou » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:03 pm

Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#11 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:03 pm

Sealed back Alpha 6 is a midrange driver, good only above 500Hz.

CarterKraft
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#12 Post by CarterKraft » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:12 pm

It's definitely a portable type speaker with lithium battery power, 26650 cells.
I started out wanting to build the parts express Blast Box https://www.parts-express.com/blast-box ... --300-7162 but after my buddy showed up with the DiamondBoxx I wondered if there was a way to approach that level of output in a DIY approach.
Browsing the BFM site again I found the SLA PROS and combined with the Truck Tuba it looked a like a decent approach.

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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#13 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:21 pm

CarterKraft wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:12 pm
It's definitely a portable type speaker with lithium battery power, 26650 cells.
I started out wanting to build the parts express Blast Box https://www.parts-express.com/blast-box ... --300-7162 but after my buddy showed up with the DiamondBoxx I wondered if there was a way to approach that level of output in a DIY approach.
Browsing the BFM site again I found the SLA PROS and combined with the Truck Tuba it looked a like a decent approach.
Because I'm partial to 'em, I'd suggest a 22 inch wide T39 loaded with a 3012LF and an OTop12.....either stacked on top or built onto the top. That would give you a nice rolling unit with plenty of punch. Way more than a Truck Tuba. Certainly bigger and a little heavier, but with wheels you could kick back the whole thing and move it all in one trip.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

CarterKraft
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#14 Post by CarterKraft » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:23 pm

If you are interested in the inner workings of the DB XL2 you can see a clear version here.
https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board ... d-project/

CarterKraft
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Re: Bought a bunch of plans still haven't built anything...

#15 Post by CarterKraft » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:24 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:21 pm
CarterKraft wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:12 pm
It's definitely a portable type speaker with lithium battery power, 26650 cells.
I started out wanting to build the parts express Blast Box https://www.parts-express.com/blast-box ... --300-7162 but after my buddy showed up with the DiamondBoxx I wondered if there was a way to approach that level of output in a DIY approach.
Browsing the BFM site again I found the SLA PROS and combined with the Truck Tuba it looked a like a decent approach.
Because I'm partial to 'em, I'd suggest a 22 inch wide T39 loaded with a 3012LF and an OTop12.....either stacked on top or built onto the top. That would give you a nice rolling unit with plenty of punch. Way more than a Truck Tuba. Certainly bigger and a little heavier, but with wheels you could kick back the whole thing and move it all in one trip.
Let me sketch that out to get some scale to it.

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