BFM vs. JBL/DAS

[Bruce Weldy]

The last two Thursdays, I've been able to listen to my system of OT12s and T39s in an outdoor setting.

Last night, the rock band I run sound for was at a festival. Sound was provided by a local sound company. The setting was a really big tent cover with no sides. So, quite a lot like being outdoors.

The system was 2 - JBL VRX942 (powered) per side and one D.A.S. powered 2x18 sub per side. The system was unbalanced as far as the subs go. Should have had at least two boxes per side, if not more.

The real comparison though, is the JBLs vs. the OT12s.

The VRX942 is a 52 pound box that sells for $2699. Is is a decent sounding box? Yes, but with equal number of OT12s, it doesnt' stand a chance as far as clarity and volume. My four boxes are clearly louder and much, much, clearer than the four JBLs.

Right off the bat, at volumes lower than I was running on my system outside (without the benefit of the tent) - it was distorting...badly. We were clipping the amp inputs, so we had to dial it back a bit.

Comparing the T39s to the D.A.S. subs isn't really apple to apples as there just wasn't enough boxes to do the job. But, I can tell you that a pair of JBL 728s with ample power would have been much better.

I was kinda' looking forward to this gig - just to get to run on some other gear.....but I was sorely disappointed. I would much rather have been running on my homemade boxes.

The band played their asses off and the crowd was really into it - but it didn't sound like it should have. The kick drum wasn't there like it should be and you could tell that we were running close to the edge all night.

This, just one again, reinforced the idea that BFM systems can hang with any of the mid-level systems that cost 5-10 times more.

[Tom Smit]

Yeehaw!

[Grant Bunter]

I've had a somewhat similar recent experience Bruce, sans subs.

A local company, for one reason or another, bought a PA for duo's, solo's etc, speced on one of the performing artists recommendations.

FOH is a pair of PRX615M's. Based on Jaybee's SPL chart, which is pretty flat (after internal DSP) no EQ was provided for FOH, only for monitors (pair of EV ZxA1's on 2 sends).

I was given the task (after it arrived) to put the system together, check functionality, rotate HF horns 90 degrees in the EV's, EQ mons, and get it up and going on a rotating artist basis (coming in each time a new artist arrives for a few week stint, showing them how to put it all together, and setting up some initial settings for each artist, and tweaking a couple of days later, or assisting in any way if a "problem" arises).
I've also been sitting in for a few shows with a 20" kick and a snare (no toms, HH's cymbals etc) with hotrods and brushes.

Anyways, the Jaybees aren't bad, but nothing like the clarity of my DR's in the same passband.
And EQed, the EV's aren't bad either, but not like my WH8's.
To be fair, it was a good suggestion to spec that gear as commercial options.

As it is, I know that a lot of how it sounds is from all I have learnt in building my own system, and much of that is thanks to this forum, but Bill's designs just seem like Rolls Royce in comparison...

[kkip]

Thanks Bruce. It sounds like they needed another pair of subs. Was the fact that they were spread apart and issue?
Just curious, how many T39s would you have needed for this gig? Or would you have used something else?

[Bruce Weldy]

They definitely needed more subs, but the tops were a problem too as we pushed em right to the edge and they were distorting.....and it really wasn't that loud.

I would have used all 6 of my T39s and lined 'em up in front of the stage. And yes, there were definite power alleys. Bass was much better right down the middle than it was at my mix position.

It just wasn't enough system for the venue. And for the kind of money he had in it - it should have been.

[MissileCrisis]

If I ever do outdoor gigs I will recommend having 140+ dB sub potential (theoretical) on tap such that you can run a solid 115+ in the middle of the crowd with 3 dB + of headroom. For my custom boxes that would be 8 subs or roughly ~70 cu. ft. worth. Of course then you need roughly 8kwatts but that's what it takes to impress outside Of course that number can be decreased to 4-6 kWatts or so if willing to expand to 100+ cu. ft. of subs(I just build them bigger to get 3-6 dB more output at the expense of double the size).