I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

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hifibob
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I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#1 Post by hifibob » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:05 pm

So before I decided to build a BFM system I did my research and probably found every site/forum that ever discussed his designs. I'm not gonna lie with the exception of this site I got 50/50 feedback. I was definitely confused but I was leaning towards BFM since I had experienced his THT and really liked it. I kept going back to these forums and a lot of the haters seemed to have credibility and knowledge of the PA world so I almost backed out and spent the $$ on commercial stuff.. Well I'm here to say... Thank god I went with my gut and went through with this rig! I have come to the conclusion that all the haters are just brand loyal clowns that have to be lying about hearing these cabs and being disappointing, claiming its all BS and you can buy used cabs that will work better blah blah.. There is just no way they heard a BFM design or a properly built one and can say they are inferior. Sorry to rant but I had to get that off my chest cus I'm pretty irritated with some of the negative comments I see float around the web.. I almost didnt build my BFM rig cus of it!

Well my first rig is completed for dance floor #1 and even though the public hasn't been able to experience it yet some pretty picky people have.. Myself and a few other local club owners and Dj's have and we all are unanimous.. This is by far the new KING of sound systems in New England for sure! 8 T60's and 6 DR280's is down right insane! It can do everything and it can do it effortlessly..

So if you are contemplating doing a BFM build and you are searching the web for some reviews I hope to god you stumble across this thread before you let some of the narrow minded posts that float around out there about BFM skew your decision.. I invite anyone willing to travel to the Rhode Island/Boston area to come hear for yourself!

sine143
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#2 Post by sine143 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:37 pm

:clap:

people will probably still try and tell you you should have built labsubs :horse:
Built:
2x Tuba 30s delta12lf loaded (gone)
4x Otop12 d2512 loaded
8x t48s (18, 18, 24, 24, 30, 30) 3015lf loaded
2x AT (1 mcm, 1 gto 804)
2x SLA Pro (dayton pa6, 6 goldwood piezo loaded)
1x bastard XF208

2x OT212 (delta pro 450a loaded, eminence psd)

hifibob
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#3 Post by hifibob » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:51 pm

sine143 wrote::clap:

people will probably still try and tell you you should have built labsubs :horse:
Lol.. Oh yah I forgot about that too. Again, it's just a bunch of brand loyal narrow minded clowns.. Damn shame!

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fastslappy
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#4 Post by fastslappy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:00 pm

I found that some , actually alot of , forums have agendas .
With those agendas go shills that promote that agenda to the point that they get the members believing the "agenda' is proven fact , Some sites &/or shills state questionable scientific facts that are slanted toward that agenda .
There are actual paying jobs that pay persons to post on various forums that support a certain PR stance , they use search bots to alert them to a forum posting that is counter to their PR position & then go on the forum site to advance their agenda & cast doubt on the OP's post .
Mike

osse
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#5 Post by osse » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:11 am

Please don't start to criticize other people's work where you advocate the opposite. As this is much a matter of personal reference and opinion it's better that way.

glad you like your system tho. Bet it sounds killah :twisted:

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PulseMan
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#6 Post by PulseMan » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:37 am

hifibob wrote:So if you are contemplating doing a BFM build and you are searching the web for some reviews I hope to god you stumble across this thread before you let some of the narrow minded posts that float around out there about BFM skew your decision.. I invite anyone willing to travel to the Rhode Island/Boston area to come hear for yourself!
+1 if I stayed in the States, I would be there to support you all the way...

I sat with the same situation here in South Africa.
I am now at the point that all the smaller companies have heard about my rig and respect it, some even worried, as I have already taken some of their work away and it's back to the drawing boards for them.
The bigger companies are out of my league anyway, one of the owners is a friend of mine and has told me that for it's size and footprint there is nothing that can compare with this BFM system regarding efficiency and projection (imagine they were DR's) and he has previously also hired me to do some of their smaller stages at big events. This from somebody that owns one of the biggest Martin Audio systems in the southern hemisphere.
This was probably one of my proudest moments in this business.

Guys, I've said it before: if you still have doubt's about your BFM system then you are doing something wrong.

hifibob you will silence the critics my friend.

BFM systems rock :cowboy:

PulseMan
BUILT
6 OT12's DELTA PRO 12A STRAIGHT ARRAY
2 OT12's DELTA PRO 12A MELDED ARRAY
8 T48's 24" 3015LF LOADED
2 WEDGEHORN 10 MKIV's
1 SLA PRO FOR CENTRE FILL


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Charles Jenkinson
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#7 Post by Charles Jenkinson » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:12 am

The distinction between a persons work and the person themselves has to be made, then we can be sure to be rightly critical, yet convey value and worth in the right direction. We are, after all, human beings, but unfortunately most value judgements are made at the human-doings level. i.e. what one does and who one is gets confused.

With that in mind, we live in a world and universe which has at least the concept of absolutes, even if many believe truth is relative. PA performance should be viewed as relative shades of grey. The issue is that one should be open to discussing the lighter and darker nature of different shades of grey, and to constantly review the same.
2xJ12L (3012HO) switchable/melded (http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=18773)
2xT30 : http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=20386

No sound is better than bad sound.

osse
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#8 Post by osse » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:08 am

Offcourse is a healthy dose of criticism is in order, but what has to be considered is the fact that there are loads of designs from creative people out there that are interesting, and it's this attitude and curiosity that brought forth the wonderful designs of bfm in the first hand. People tend to favor different designs, as in food, beer, women, music and all other wonderful things out there :wink:

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Charles Jenkinson
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#9 Post by Charles Jenkinson » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:38 am

You make a strong argument for subjectivity. Objectivity ranks higher for me.
2xJ12L (3012HO) switchable/melded (http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=18773)
2xT30 : http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=20386

No sound is better than bad sound.

Grant Bunter
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#10 Post by Grant Bunter » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:14 am

Mate,
From the outset, I agree with you 100%
Pound for pound and bang for buck, I reckon Bill's designs are unbeatable in terms of performance and cost.

Apparently nothing DIY should be any good.

One can only hope that others will come and find the same solutions you have, or find solutions that meet their individual needs.
They should, there's plenty of offerings.

Many times, in other forums, I've seen the comment, or similar, that "we" (being BFM users), are somewhat parochial in our support for these designs.
Why not? There's a bunch of other manufacturers out there that (quite rightly) place a value on their product, and let their marketing department go to town on pushing their designs. Apparently it's "wrong" for us to do the same. Apparently we are just biased users.

A few weeks back I had a last minute call to provide PA for a pair of well known artist. The hirer was the sound engineer, who is in high demand all over the country, both studio and live.
I turned up, he turned up, we had a great chat. Turns out his own rig is Meyer. Turns out we have mutual friends. He wanted to know what I had and I explained it in great detail. 20 minutes after we had met, he was absolutely fine about it all. I'm convinced he thought he was turning up "out bush" to another crap rig. The show went down a treat, the artists (and band) all asked why it was so good and the SE's simple answer was "it's all pro gear and the owner knows it inside out". As well as getting paid I got a lot of thanks and I learnt a lot. And I know that guy will want my rig above any other for any gig he's involved in for a significant radius of distance.

"I learnt a lot" brings me to the absolute bonus, this forum.
Here is where I have learnt the most. From people (some who I have no doubt have credentials I could only ever hope to achieve in terms of sound) who offer their time, advice and experience for free, including the designer. Where else does that happen when it comes to PA / HT/ Car audio?
I've been challenged, learnt new skills, taken and given advice, some of it maybe even good.

Anyway,
I too hope you have the chance to silence the critics, and I know you will. You will do that every night your clubs are open and people walk out the door smiling and laughing after a great night of good music played though super PA. Many of them will never know you built your cabs.

Play em loud and proud, put some BFM badges on them too...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans. 2 more under way with CD horn
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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escapemcp
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#11 Post by escapemcp » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:54 am

This is a personal annoyance of mine. So many people judge a product on the badge on the front or the price, rather than actual performance. Just look at all the people buying into the beats audio brand... Most of those headphones are rubbish (although i will admit that their DJ phones are pretty good, albeit overpriced).
I prefer to thoroughly check things out for myself... It's the very reason why I ended up here.
People love to bash products that they think are inferior to their own. This is especially true when they are cheaper as people don't want to think they spent money that they didn't have to - it's just human nature.
There was a problem on these very forums a few weeks back where someone (the OP?) had a problem with a driverack's display breaking... No one mentioned it happened because it was cheap rubbish, but if it had been Behringer, I bet at least one person would have chimed in about Behringer kit being substandard.
I have mentioned iNuke amps in some "which amp should I buy" threads and get a lukewarm response at best. I love mine and think they offer great value. Behringer do make some bad products, but they make some good stuff too... The trick is to find out what is good. I also have a pair of kam kcd-450 CDJs which DJs turn their nose up when they first see them. Then they play a set on them and are forced to admit that they are good... Price does not equal quality... Brand name does not equal quality (although they both can be a good indicator but not always). Form your own opinions and don't just listen blindly to the masses... But hey, I guess you are doing this because you are here already ;)

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escapemcp
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#12 Post by escapemcp » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:05 am

And it's great to hear your thoughts on your new rig bob... It's those sort of comments that made me realise that BFM was the way to go... You can't fake a response like that ;)

kkip
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#13 Post by kkip » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:27 am

I agree hifibob. In fact, there is one particular user that clearly has a chip on his shoulder toward BFM designs. I won't mention names, but he is a member of many pro-sound and DJ forums and generally inserts himself into nearly every thread where someone has mentioned BFM. After reading many of his non-nonsensical circular arguments, I can only conclude that he must be a shill. He claims to have inside technical data from a second-tier manufacture that never publishes SPL charts. Strangely, his recommendations seem to be for that same manufacture's equipment 90% of the time. His tactic always seems to be to mix a few valid points in with many that he can not prove. When someone takes that time to respond, rebutting all of his questionable points, he simply responds with more of the same. Also, the tread pattern usually includes other forum members chiming in with comments like "you better listen to this guy, he knows his stuff".

I recently ran sound for a band that has there own small rig. All instruments including the electronic drums connect directly to the PA. Normally they use 1 or 2 dual 18s for bass. I offered to bring my pair of T-39s instead. They asked a lot of questions and couldn't understand how my 12" cabinets could be louder than their dual 18. Also they couldn't understand why I insisted on powering them with my own processor/amp. And how could there be enough power in an amp rack that one person can easily carry? This is when I realized that BFM cabinets may not be for everyone. Some people just want to go to a trusted music store and buy whatever the sales guy recommends. Add to that the negative threads on the internet, and some people will be scared away. Of course hearing them tends to change minds. Like the band that I mentioned, who now want to replace their dual 18s with T-39s.
4 x T39 - 20" - 3012LF (Built 2)
4 x OT12 - 2512 - Melded/D220Ti
1 x TAT - GTO804

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#14 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:55 am

kkip wrote:there is one particular user that clearly has a chip on his shoulder toward BFM designs. I won't mention names, but he is a member of many pro-sound and DJ forums and generally inserts himself into nearly every thread where someone has mentioned BFM.
I'm constantly reminded of the classic Western movies, where the old wizened Marshall has to take on challenges from every two-bit punk who wanders into town looking to make a reputation for themselves. What the two-bit punks always fail to consider is that Marshalls who aren't the best shots around don't get to be old or wizened. :cowboy:
I'm sure I ran into this particular two-bit punk at djforums.com, where we slapped leather and he lost, left town, never to be heard of there again. I'd do the same to him at every forum he frequents, but like every Marshall I can only cover so much ground. I'll have to leave it to 'deputies' to keep the peace elsewhere. :wink:

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netwerks
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Re: I wish I had the opertunity to silence the critics!

#15 Post by netwerks » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:36 am

Grant Bunter wrote:Mate,

Many times, in other forums, I've seen the comment, or similar, that "we" (being BFM users), are somewhat parochial in our support for these designs.
Why not? There's a bunch of other manufacturers out there that (quite rightly) place a value on their product, and let their marketing department go to town on pushing their designs. Apparently it's "wrong" for us to do the same. Apparently we are just biased users.
The most powerful type of marketing is when your customers self-evangelize your products and services. It's called "social proof."

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