Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

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bassmonster
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Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

#1 Post by bassmonster »

Warning: This is going to be very long-winded. The idea is to give the potential builder a full circle review and that includes lots of details. If you are afraid of big walls of text, scroll down to the bottom of this post for Cliffsnotes.

Objective: I wanted a subwoofer that would eventually inhabit my car but that would stay in my room for awhile. Garage DJ use would be icing. I wanted, in-room, flat to 30hz or below for my dubstep and DnB that I enjoy. I wanted it dual loaded cause of the extra +6dB and bragging rights. :lol:

Solution: A dual loaded Table Tuba. Flat to 30hz in-room, plenty of volume for the car and house parties. I loaded it with two JBL GTO804 drivers, a higher power car audio-spec subwoofer with similar specs to the recommended Tang Band W8-740P. I got these because they were near the same price as the Tang Bands and looked more durable to the naked eye. Since these would eventually be in the car I wanted something other than a paper cone for durability against the constant weathering that comes with being in a car; the climate is always changing. I suspected it was a moot point but I got the JBL just in case. No problems so far.

The Build: This was a relatively easy build. Not as easy as a regular sealed box by any means, but it's worth the little bit of extra effort for the performance. To put it into terms, I'm a highschooler without much time, tools, or experience, and I finished this build in about three months, working in 2-4 hour stints, and not every day either, more on the weekends. The minimum tools are a circular saw, jigsaw, hammer, and nails, but a table saw is best thing ever. Cuts accurate angles quickly and efficiently with minimum fuss. Main tools I used were the table saw and jigsaw; table saw for the panels and jigsaw for the braces. I used waaaay too much PL Premium but it's all about getting the warm fuzzy that you're doing it right the first time anyway. I used about 5 tubes of PL, no joke. The professional builders on here could probably use around 2 tubes and get the same results. It comes with experience I suppose.

The Finish: I finished mine with Duratex because I knew it would get moved around some for parties. It's durable enough, though for cabs on the road 24/7 I would consider Line-X as a more permanent option, it's literally explosive proof (see Mythbusters Line-X tests). The Duratex is an easy, no-hassle finish to apply, and it dries in 30 minutes with ideal conditions. I applied 3 coats on a 30x30x24" cab. This was using only 2 pints of Duratex with some left over for touch-ups.

Performance: So, how does it perform? Well that can be measured in the three circumstances I've used it in- the room, the car, and as a bass bottom.

The Room: Nothing short of amazing. Here's an excerpt from my build thread (keep in mind I hadn't corner loaded it in my room yet):
bassmonster wrote:I fired her up for the first time (parents home, low volume). The TT was in about the middle of my living room, mouth in the center, not facing any corners, pretty much the worst placement for a sub. I plugged her into the Bash, crossed it over at about 100hz and played "Bass Head" by Bassnectar, my standard bass song for testing any decent system as it has a great drop down low as well as a dynamic bassline.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
"Wow" doesn't even begin to describe it. This thing RIPS. It has a subtle, smooth tone but clearly means business, and a sort of airy feel to it while still being authoritative.

And the sensitivity. Let's put it into perspective. At .5 volts, you could hear it in the other room. At 2 volts, the stuff on glass shelves in the entertainment center showcase starts to buzz, and the Bash on top of the TT starts rattling. Even at full power this NEVER happened with my ported 8". At 3 volts on the TT, my dad was getting a slight headache, but this may be totally irrelevant to the noise, I suffered no effects. Again, this was with the gain on the Bash not up even one notch!!

I played some of the deepest obscure dubstep in my arsenal, but nothing could compromise the frequency response of the TT. I heard frequencies I'd never heard before in a loudspeaker, even at EDM concerts and raves and the like. And the cleanliness of this thing is amazing. It was like waking up after a long, blurred dream of port chuffing and high volume distortion. The smooth tone from this TT is just pure bass bliss.
Here's another excerpt from when I did my first war volume test in my room:
bassmonster wrote:Well, I broke down and brought the TT into my room and corner loaded and hooked her up to the rest of my system, I crossed the sub at 110hz and the mains at 125hz with a wide slope. I had planned to wait to move the TT into my room until it was painted and Duratexed, but I couldn't resist. On a side note, my small room has terrible room modes, the bass is almost nonexistent in the middle of the room (no bueno), but is immense in the corners. Anyway, I then proceeded to play some Mord Fustang house music at war volume. Remember what I said about it not digesting my food?
it doesn't like, digest my food or anything.
Boy, was I wrong. :twisted:

I played it at only 1/3 volume, anything else would have alarmed the entire neighborhood. Next to the sub, everything on me was dancing like it was alive. The hair on my arms and legs felt like it was being blown around by a leaf blower, and my eyes felt like they were being pressed into my head with my thumbs. The bass was resonating inside my chest with a reverberation, that feeling I've always searched for since a loud concert years ago. I'm 100% sure that this could cause nausea after a short while. I only listened for 5 minutes and felt a little sick, though this was just from the evil happiness I got out of finally getting to play this monster at war volume. :twisted: The drywall opposite the horn mouth was visibly fluctuating about 1/16", and things on my desk were walking across the surface. I then went into the next room. The plates hanging on the wall were visibly bouncing off the walls about 1/3", it was like the Hulk was slamming the palms of his hands on the opposite wall. I then went outside to see how loud it was outside. The gutters on the opposite side of the house were vibrating like crazy, and so were the front lights at the front door. I went over to where my room was (my room is downstairs). The window was visibly vibrating, and the side panels of the house felt like they were about to crack with vibration, and the gutters on this side of the house were shaking like there was an earthquake.
Last edited by bassmonster on Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bassmonster
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba

#2 Post by bassmonster »

Continued.

The Car: Here's another excerpt from my build thread on the first time I fired it up in the car. It speaks for itself.
bassmonster wrote:So I had to take the TT to the band gig I was playing bass in anyway, so I heaved the TT in the trunk of the Forester, and turned the mouth as recommended. I used my Bash amp for a quick demo in the car, I don't have a proper car audio amp yet, and I was taking the Bash along as my "bass head" anyway (I had a foot pedal for EQ anyway so NBD). I just couldn't resist having the TT in the boot and not being able to test it out with cabin gain, etc. I used a DC to AC converter that plugs into the cigarette lighter plug. Problem was, the cheap converter only states a max of 120w, and those specs are inflated anyway. So I didn't even get close to the TT's potential. The volume wasn't even up 1/4 of the way. On the Decibel song the bass occasionally cut out because the 36hz main bassline was putting too much of a load on the DC/AC converter. It still rattled me quite a bit and shoved my eardrums in and out with the bass, but I'm waiting till I get a proper 400w car amp to do some real brain damage. To be honest I'm a bit scared of what will happen to my car (and ears if not protected properly) at those volumes. At 10 volts everything inside the car was vibrating. Probably the equivalent of sticking a Buttkicker under the seat. Steve Regier RTA'd his TTLS in his van, he got response to 10hz. I wonder if the ladies would like a 15hz massage? I'm also convinced this thing could do some major damage in small-scale dB competitions (no more than two batteries or 1000w, etc.).
Here's an excerpt from the first demo I did with the TT in the car:
bassmonster wrote:So I did my first TT demo today for my friend with the TT in the back of the Forester. The TT technically isn't allowed to be used in the car till next year but I needed to transport it to and from band practice so... :D My friend saw the size and went like :shock: and chuckled to himself. "Duuuuuude!" So we hopped in the front and turned on the song "Decibel" by Original Sin, the one with the 36hz bassline. This one always brings my "patients" close to cardiac arrest. Now keep in mind the only thing playing was the TT, which was hooked up to the Bash running off the weak DC converter. Note that this setup really couldn't push over 12v since it was limited by the battery and everything else. Turning on the car seemed to give it a little more strength for pushing the low notes. Also keep in mind I don't have a proper car audio setup yet and the music wasn't hooked up to anything other than the TT, so only the bass could be heard. IMO it makes the whole thing less impressive, but in this case it didn't matter if anything else was playing or not...

So I turned up to about 2/5 volume, turned on the Decibel song, the long intro (with no bass at all) started playing, and my friend got this bored look on his face. I calmly waited for the intro to end and I knew the exact timing. I smirked slightly at my bored friend, then the bass hit. And it hit like a sledgehammer too. :twisted: My friend jumped up in surprise and doubled over, and when he recovered he had this stricken look on his face like :shock: He started to speak and when he spoke the bass made his voice oscillate like he was speaking into a fan. So then we got out of the car and walked around while the song was playing. Everything was rattling on the car. The license plate, the mirrors, the windshield wipers, the windows, the works. We went around to the back and the windshield wipers were dancing so much we started giggling like schoolgirls. Afterwards my friend remarked about how he'd never heard bass like that in his life. :hyper: And guess what? That was less than 1/3 power.
And when I got rid of the little converter setup and hooked up the amp to the mains power with the TT still in the car...
bassmonster wrote:So later at home I decided I'd had enough of this DC converter joke. I plugged the Bash into an extension cord which ran from a wall outlet outside the car and put on some bass-heavy tunes. I then turned it up to a solid 1/2 volume and prepared for a nuclear blast.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

I thought I'd heard plenty of bass with the weak DC converter. The TT at half volume in the car is insane! I doubled over myself and started cackling like an evil genius. With every beat it felt like all the hairs on my head had been charged with static electricity, and some of the beats with today's house music could have defibrillated the dead. The whole inside of the car was alive with movement. Stuff resting on the top of the dashboard was falling off, and the rattling was almost as loud as the bass. I went outside and went around the car. The windshield wipers were bouncing off the car, and the hatch door was visibly shaking like a beach boy in the arctic. Folks, it needs no further explanation.
So here's how it compares to any other options I had considered when looking for a subwoofer for my car.

For all you extreme bassheads out there, this design is it. And I know how some bassheads think they're a special case (me included). They say "Oh yeah you might think 120dB is loud enough, but not for me! I'm different. You can't possibly understand the crazy bass I want!"
This is more than enough. This absolutely crushes of any other options I could have gone with for a car audio system, including but not limited to...dual Kicker Comp 15s in a 40hz ported box, dual bandpass 12s tuned at 45hz, and four tens in sealed boxes. Not to mention, I am saving hundreds on a less powerful amp because the TT is so efficient. This subwoofer has given me everything I could have wanted in a car audio subwoofer- hits clean, low, and LOUD. Know and understand your goal before you make with the sawdust.
For average people I'm sure an MCM AT would be more than enough. For skull crushing performance with music below 30hz, the TT is where it's at for me. But be prepared to sacrifice your entire trunk and a couple of windows for it. Keep in mind even the TT is a little big for the car. Mine was louder with the doors or windows open. This is where the AT comes in as a more practical design for car subwoofers.

bassmonster
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba

#3 Post by bassmonster »

Continued. Almost done.


As a Bass Bottom: I have been temporarily using the TT as a low bass guitar cabinet until I build my J12 this summer. Warning, off reservation usage, this is not recommended. A TT is a home sub not a bass cabinet, and using it as a bass cabinet can damage the drivers if it pops with the amp up. Do not use it for this. It works for like, the full range of the low E string, and that's it. Having said that it's immense overkill for small practices. And I can play a less than 100 person low volume gig unmiked if there's a good corner available. Bottom line, this isn't supposed to be a bass guitar rig. Not it's intended purpose, nor what it was designed to do.


Costs: They're always at least $100 more expensive than you planned right? Either way you'll save at least $1000. A commercial sub with this kind of performance would cost hundreds if not a thousand dollars more to buy. This entire project cost around $600 including the amp. You could build one with the amp for about $200 or so. I opted for more expensive drivers, 24" wide (more plywood), and used 5 tubes of PL, plus I opted for casters, Duratex, and corner protectors. That's where my costs came from.

Bottom Line/Cliffs Notes: This subwoofer does everything I want it to do and more. It plays brutally low and loud while still having a smooth tone. It will rip your head off if you put it the back of a vehicle, and still play classical and organ music just as well as it plays rap or DnB. Thanks for reading my long novel review, or if you just read the Cliffs Notes that's fine too. :wink: Now onto the pics!

Horn path before the final side is put on:
Image

Fully painted:
Image

This is where it is in my room. Note placement is incorrect, after the pic was taken I faced the mouth into the corner as placed per the plans. The picture was taken from the far corner of my room. My room is very very small, 11x12ft, so I have many room modes. Notice how the TT absolutely dwarfs everything else in the room! :lol:
Ignore the random orbs in the picture. :shock: :wink:
Image

Here it is in the back of the Forester. Pic was taken at night that's why everything else is dark. Duratex and mouth braces hadn't been done then either.
Image
Last edited by bassmonster on Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bassmonster
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

#4 Post by bassmonster »

For the build process and other stuff check out My Build Thread. Feel free to ask any questions!

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shawn_g
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

#5 Post by shawn_g »

That might be the most extensive review in the history of the BFM forums. :D

Nice review and good looking build!

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Tom Smit
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

#6 Post by Tom Smit »

Jumpin' jiminy! This ....... is ......... the(e) ....... loooongest review .....ever!




But a good one! :lol:
:clap:
TomS

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matt996
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

#7 Post by matt996 »

Great, comprehensive review and very nice job on the build!

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subharmonic
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

#8 Post by subharmonic »

Could you be a little more descriptive?
:P
2x T39, 1x T60, 1x THTLP, 1x AT(not built by me) 6x DR250
I need more bass

But this gal's built like a burlap bag full of bobcats
CW Mcall

bassmonster
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

#9 Post by bassmonster »

Thanks for the compliments everyone!
Quick question. My Bash amp gets very very warm in standby. Is this normal? Like, it gets warmer than it does when it's playing. :confused: Most of the time when it's playing at leisure volume it's not even turned up one notch. (For reference, house destruction is 2 and 1/2 notches)

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Drey Chennells
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

#10 Post by Drey Chennells »

bassmonster wrote:Thanks for the compliments everyone!
Quick question. My Bash amp gets very very warm in standby. Is this normal? Like, it gets warmer than it does when it's playing. :confused: Most of the time when it's playing at leisure volume it's not even turned up one notch. (For reference, house destruction is 2 and 1/2 notches)
no. it should idle at almost room temp
"Things happen, but music stays in your blood forever~." bf

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Titanium Hand
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

#11 Post by Titanium Hand »

What rear window! :loler: The bass will be shaking the rear view mirror so much it wont matter that you can't see out the back anyway!

Cracking build thread and review by the way :clap:

Did you listen to DjHiggumz stuff on the link he posted? I had a listen a while back, pretty good, will sound better on your TT though :chainsaw:
Built 2 x T39 Lab 12 loaded 457mm wide, 29inch Wide Dual Lab 12 Loaded T60 and 2 x OTop 112 2512 Melded. Powered by N.I.TRAKTOR Pro 2.6 (2.6.1 has too many issues) TRAKTOR KONTROL S2 Crown XTi2000

bassmonster
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

#12 Post by bassmonster »

Used the TT for a bass bottom in a gym-sized church sanctuary. I wall loaded and ran the gig at moderate volume. My rig was unmiked and the guitarist was telling me to turn it down. :loler: :hyper: :mrgreen:
This thing is incredible. Oh did I mention two 8s? :P

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WiSounds
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

#13 Post by WiSounds »

Decibel is one of my all time favorite tracks to scare people with. Great review, and nice build. I'm not the only one crazy enough to put a tuba in a car. Careful though, I cracked the windshield in my Explorer with a THT.
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Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:If one wants to try something else, well, that's what DIY stands for. :mrgreen:

bassmonster
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

#14 Post by bassmonster »

It's the man himself! I'm honored! :mrgreen:

I'm not one for gangster rap but "Rack City" by Tyga has the lowest bass of any rap song I've ever heard. I was getting some serious window flex from this one at 15 volts.

I love the reactions when people hear this thing for the first time. It's like they've gotten kicked in the face, the look of horror, amazement, and sometimes even nausea. :mrgreen:

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WiSounds
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Re: Dual Loaded Table Tuba Review

#15 Post by WiSounds »

Best part, you have a massive box with teeeny lil speakers, and nobody believes you when you say "Oh just a pair of cheap 8s". Liking the curved mouth bracing.
facebook.com/wisounds
Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:If one wants to try something else, well, that's what DIY stands for. :mrgreen:

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