JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
And here are the results…
This was the setup of the two ATs, placed side by side in a 'dual afterburner configuration' in a Citroen C3…:
The test rig was set on the passenger's seat:
The measurement microphone's location:
The comparison was done with all conditions, levels and other settings throughout the system equal and untouched.
Only the selector switch was used to alternate between the cabs.
This is the combined plot of all 7 test runs, the different traces explained below.
Here is the full spectrum view:
And here a zoomed view of the low end:
First, the cabs ware pushed all the way forward against the backs of the front seats, leaving about 40cm (16") from the horn mouth to the back door, like this:
In this position I first tested the response with the back door open. The (lower) green trace is of the JBL and the purple trace is of the TB.
I then closed the back door. The yellow trace is of the JBL and the orange trace is the TB's.
Following, I moved the cabs all the way to the back, with the horn mouth right against the (closed) back door, like this:
The light blue trace is of the JBL and the (top) green trace is of the TB.
I then returned the car to its 'normal' configuration, and placed the JBL loaded AT in the trunk, like so:
The top blue trace is of this configuration.
I then took some power and SPL readings. This is 40Hz at 1w:
This is 40Hz at 100w:
And this is 40Hz at 150w:
Summery;
I played a variety of tracks, constantly alternating between the cabs, and to my humble ears there wasn't any noticeable difference between them.
Both sounded exactly the same and just great. Both supplied a nice and amazing low end (down to 30Hz and lower… I know, small cabin…)
In view of these listening tests, as well as the measured plots, I think it is correct to conclude that both the JBL and the TB are suitable and perform equally (well) in the AT.
It definitely looks like the small variations in the JBL's T/S parameters (compared to the recommended TB) are probably not off enough
to spoil the amazing performance of the AT design.
This was the setup of the two ATs, placed side by side in a 'dual afterburner configuration' in a Citroen C3…:
The test rig was set on the passenger's seat:
The measurement microphone's location:
The comparison was done with all conditions, levels and other settings throughout the system equal and untouched.
Only the selector switch was used to alternate between the cabs.
This is the combined plot of all 7 test runs, the different traces explained below.
Here is the full spectrum view:
And here a zoomed view of the low end:
First, the cabs ware pushed all the way forward against the backs of the front seats, leaving about 40cm (16") from the horn mouth to the back door, like this:
In this position I first tested the response with the back door open. The (lower) green trace is of the JBL and the purple trace is of the TB.
I then closed the back door. The yellow trace is of the JBL and the orange trace is the TB's.
Following, I moved the cabs all the way to the back, with the horn mouth right against the (closed) back door, like this:
The light blue trace is of the JBL and the (top) green trace is of the TB.
I then returned the car to its 'normal' configuration, and placed the JBL loaded AT in the trunk, like so:
The top blue trace is of this configuration.
I then took some power and SPL readings. This is 40Hz at 1w:
This is 40Hz at 100w:
And this is 40Hz at 150w:
Summery;
I played a variety of tracks, constantly alternating between the cabs, and to my humble ears there wasn't any noticeable difference between them.
Both sounded exactly the same and just great. Both supplied a nice and amazing low end (down to 30Hz and lower… I know, small cabin…)
In view of these listening tests, as well as the measured plots, I think it is correct to conclude that both the JBL and the TB are suitable and perform equally (well) in the AT.
It definitely looks like the small variations in the JBL's T/S parameters (compared to the recommended TB) are probably not off enough
to spoil the amazing performance of the AT design.
Authorized Builder
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- 6 DR290
- Omni10.5
- AT, TAT
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- 2 WH10
- Truck Tuba
http://www.boniton.co.il
http://www.bt-12.com Balanced Tilting Sounds Better...
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Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
Thanks for doing this! This should be a sticky too.
Glad the JBL is up there with the rest.
Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
Thanks so much for putting in the time and effort to do this...it is all so detailed yet easy to follow. Good work.
Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
Awesome test results. I'm anxious to hear what the other car audio guys think of the setup.
- Michael Ewald Hansen
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Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
Nice tests! Just a small correction.. Since atleast the JBL is 4ohm (dont know how the horn loading adds to this calculation) 2.83v is 2w.. (2.83*2.83)/4 = 2 watt So the first picture showing 106db is actually at 2w and the rest is different too..
Other than that, I love the ingenuity of the test rig
Other than that, I love the ingenuity of the test rig
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Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
Very nice!!
Last edited by Radian on Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Good food, good people, good times.
4 - AT
1 - TT
1 - THT Slim
2 - SLA Pro 4x6 Alphalite
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Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
Is that Pyle crossover any good? What model is it? Might have to pick me up one of those...
Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
You are right regarding the added impedance of the horn, but the truth is some ware in between…Michael Ewald Hansen wrote:Nice tests! Just a small correction.. Since atleast the JBL is 4ohm (dont know how the horn loading adds to this calculation) 2.83v is 2w.. (2.83*2.83)/4 = 2 watt So the first picture showing 106db is actually at 2w and the rest is different too..
Indeed I calculated the voltage according to the (total) impedance being 8 ohms. Not sure where I got that figure from though?...
Here is an impedance plot (WT3) I once did to my TAT (in the van) and at 40Hz it actually reads about 12 ohms!:
That would suggest even lower power needed to achieve those SPL levels. I'll run the WT3 on these ATs and see how they really measure.
No! I would not recommend it. I found some irritating issues with it...bassmonster wrote:Is that Pyle crossover any good? What model is it? Might have to pick me up one of those...
The XO frequency controls don’t match the panel markings and also the level controls are not linear in their behavior.
I took this piece because I needed a basic external XO. Most 4 channel car amplifiers have some type of XO control built in,
so you're basically getting the XO for free.
If you're looking for a really good and versatile XO, I would recommend the MiniDSP route… http://www.minidsp.com/
Authorized Builder
- 6 DR290
- Omni10.5
- AT, TAT
- Tuba 48
- 2 WH10
- Truck Tuba
http://www.boniton.co.il
http://www.bt-12.com Balanced Tilting Sounds Better...
- 6 DR290
- Omni10.5
- AT, TAT
- Tuba 48
- 2 WH10
- Truck Tuba
http://www.boniton.co.il
http://www.bt-12.com Balanced Tilting Sounds Better...
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Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
A ragged plot with high peaks is normal. You quantify nominal impedance by the minimum, which is about 5 ohms in the plot. That's equivalent to a 7 to 8 ohm nominal.N.Webber wrote: Here is an impedance plot (WT3) I once did to my TAT (in the van) and at 40Hz it actually reads about 12 ohms!:
Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
8 Ohms checks with me. But...are you sure that second pic (showing 20.79V) is 100W? I'm confused. Cross-checking the reading on the SPL meter against the voltage reading, the math appears to be more like ~50W and then 77W (good for the extra 2 dB SPL) for the last one.N.Webber wrote:That would suggest even lower power needed to achieve those SPL levels.
Good food, good people, good times.
4 - AT
1 - TT
1 - THT Slim
2 - SLA Pro 4x6 Alphalite
4 - AT
1 - TT
1 - THT Slim
2 - SLA Pro 4x6 Alphalite
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Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
Great test results. Did you get a chance to parallel both cabs and listen to some dub-step with both cabs at wide open throttle, doors closed?
Built:
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In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience
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Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
You'd get in the high 120's/low 130's with that, I expect.
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Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
That brings up the point that you shouldn't measure specific frequencies at specific voltages to estimate power. It's irrelevant, since in operation the amp will deliver the same voltage at all frequencies, irrespective of impedance. True that the current delivery and therefore power drops as impedance increases, but don't make too much of that, being just frosting on the cake as it were. Besides, all alignments have impedance peaks.Radian wrote:8 Ohms checks with me. But...are you sure that second pic (showing 20.79V) is 100W? I'm confused. Cross-checking the reading on the SPL meter against the voltage reading, the math appears to be more like ~50W and then 77W (good for the extra 2 dB SPL) for the last one.N.Webber wrote:That would suggest even lower power needed to achieve those SPL levels.
Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
If relating SPL output and voltage through the use of Ohm's law and the Decibel equations is irrelevant, what other method do you suggest the technician use to predict their relationship out in the field?Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: It's irrelevant, since in operation the amp will deliver the same voltage at all frequencies, irrespective of impedance.
I know of no other way to get from one value to the other without calculating power at least once, through the formulas. I understand there are always grey areas in real applications, but somewhere a line has to be drawn in the sand so the pro can say, "Yes, I can meet this spec." with confidence.
Good food, good people, good times.
4 - AT
1 - TT
1 - THT Slim
2 - SLA Pro 4x6 Alphalite
4 - AT
1 - TT
1 - THT Slim
2 - SLA Pro 4x6 Alphalite
- Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: JBL 804 vs TangBand 740P
I didn't say that. I said power is irrelevant. Voltage swing is what should be considered.Radian wrote: If relating SPL output and voltage through the use of Ohm's law and the Decibel equations is irrelevant, what other method do you suggest the technician use to predict their relationship out in the field?