A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

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BrentEvans
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A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#1 Post by BrentEvans » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:06 pm

They say you never get a second chance at a first date. Well... maybe not, but this is close. We just got back in from the first time out with my DR200s after the ribbon tweeter refit. The gig was a last minute freebie (returning a favor), but I like to make impressions, so we took the whole kit.

It was a youth event at the local community college, and consisted of praise bands and preachers from a couple of churches. With 4 DR200s and my ported 15s, we hit 110db frequently in the back of the room, and I easily had 20db of headroom in the system before the limiters. :hyper:

Some video was shot, I'll try to get a few clips. Sound was perfect, even with an on-the-fly EQ job (couldn't find my saved EQ curve for the new configuration).

Here's the kicker- the only place to set up the tops was behind the performance area. The room was oddly shaped, and they had set up a "theatre in the round" configuration. Even so, I had all kinds of volume with no feedback - the ribbons are great for this. 110db with open large diaphragm condensers on stage, lots of vocal mics, and the speakers no farther than 15 feet away, and behind the mics.... totally awesome. 105db with a lav mic and no hint of feedback... super cool.

If you're considering DR200s, and don't mind biamping.... it's way worth it.
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#2 Post by Ken Lustgarten » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:17 am

So I take it you like the ribbons better then piezos? Just tonight I made some bulk cutting jigs (cuts 5 at a time) and started cutting piezos for 6 DR200's (4 melded and 2 flat). If I didn't already have all the parts the ribbons would be a fun project to try, I would love to hear them.

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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#3 Post by BrentEvans » Sun May 08, 2011 1:52 pm

CraigsAudio wrote:So I take it you like the ribbons better then piezos? Just tonight I made some bulk cutting jigs (cuts 5 at a time) and started cutting piezos for 6 DR200's (4 melded and 2 flat). If I didn't already have all the parts the ribbons would be a fun project to try, I would love to hear them.
Sorry to be so long, thought I had responded to this already.

Indeed, I do like them better. If you're down here sometime, send me a line and we'll arrange a demo.

Also... event video. Camera audio only, the client was very happy with the sound, and invited me back for a couple of more of these later this year. The only feedback came from the monitors, even though FOH was behind the performance area.

99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

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James R
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#4 Post by James R » Sun May 08, 2011 3:59 pm

Thanks Brent,
I have 2 of my Otop 112's loaded with ribbons only 6 more to go 8) Oh Also ( I got that motu squared away also) :D .

Jim
" Everyone Has a Photographic Memory, Just Not Everyone Has Film In The Camera"


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NEXT 2 x DR280's

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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#5 Post by BrentEvans » Sun May 08, 2011 5:32 pm

James R wrote:Thanks Brent,
I have 2 of my Otop 112's loaded with ribbons only 6 more to go 8) Oh Also ( I got that motu squared away also) :D .

Jim
Cool deal... what ended up being the problem?
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

horst
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#6 Post by horst » Sun May 08, 2011 7:16 pm

BrentEvans wrote:
Also... event video. Camera audio only,
That sounds petty good, but you should get some binaural microphones, they are microphones that are mounted in or near the ears, the resulting effect is almost spooky in it's realism.

PS: it does look a little non busy in there, maybe you could suggest they mix up the slow dance material with
some Drum n' Praise? I'd come.

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Tom Smit
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#7 Post by Tom Smit » Sun May 08, 2011 11:03 pm

BrentEvans wrote: Here's the kicker- the only place to set up the tops was behind the performance area. The room was oddly shaped, and they had set up a "theatre in the round" configuration. Even so, I had all kinds of volume with no feedback - the ribbons are great for this.
I have done this a couple of times with my O10.5s, and also with no feedback.

Good sound by the way. :clap:
TomS

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James R
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#8 Post by James R » Mon May 09, 2011 3:27 am

BrentEvans wrote:
James R wrote:Thanks Brent,
I have 2 of my Otop 112's loaded with ribbons only 6 more to go 8) Oh Also ( I got that motu squared away also) :D .

Jim
Cool deal... what ended up being the problem?
Changed out to my backup tower and it worked no problem :noob:
" Everyone Has a Photographic Memory, Just Not Everyone Has Film In The Camera"


4 x T48 24.5" 3015LF
8 x 112 Otops


NEXT 2 x DR280's

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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#9 Post by BrentEvans » Mon May 09, 2011 7:26 pm

James R wrote:Changed out to my backup tower and it worked no problem :noob:
First computer probably didn't have 5v PCI slots. It happens.
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

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James R
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#10 Post by James R » Tue May 10, 2011 3:53 am

Prob, having more memory and a seperate vid card put in to speed it up.
Anyway glad to see the Ribbons are working out :D
" Everyone Has a Photographic Memory, Just Not Everyone Has Film In The Camera"


4 x T48 24.5" 3015LF
8 x 112 Otops


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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#11 Post by Jujuman » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:38 pm

Hey BE;
Which ribbons did you use? That vid sounds great.....

Jujuman

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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#12 Post by BrentEvans » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:26 pm

Jujuman wrote:Hey BE;
Which ribbons did you use? That vid sounds great.....

Jujuman
Dayton PT2C-8, 2 per cab in series. Spacing was done so that when stacked, the individual ribbons are equidistant. This means they're cheated slightly to the outside from perfect center on the cab.
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#13 Post by chris_c_ » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:09 pm

Ribbons have a very flat response and extend up to 20kHz. But what's the efficiency of the 2 ribbons vs. the melded peizo tweeter array , for the DR200, 1w @ 1m ?
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#14 Post by BrentEvans » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:57 pm

Here's the chart... they're not as sensitive as the piezos, but because you're biamping, you can compensate by simply turning up the amp a bit. This can change the phase relationship at the crossover point, so you have to be careful not to lose response there, but my experience has been that it's not a problem. These have such a nice linear phase relationship it's amazing. Also attached is a chart of the same cabinet before the refit while it still had a melded array (SPL is not calibrated on this chart) - notice how the phase relationship of the piezo array is much more ragged. This may or may not be of any consequence, but the ribbons are much better at rejecting feedback, and they sound better with a single cab in play than the piezos do, even with both systems calibrated and EQd.
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dr200 ma uncalibrated.jpg
dr200 ma uncalibrated.jpg (28.46 KiB) Viewed 2767 times
dr200 beta 8 pt2c-8 1w1m.jpg
DR200 1W/1m Beta 8 2x PT2C-8
dr200 beta 8 pt2c-8 1w1m.jpg (30.6 KiB) Viewed 2767 times
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Re: A Second First Date (DR200s with Ribbons)

#15 Post by chris_c_ » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:07 am

BrentEvans wrote:Here's the chart... they're not as sensitive as the piezos, but because you're biamping, you can compensate by simply turning up the amp a bit. This can change the phase relationship at the crossover point, so you have to be careful not to lose response there, but my experience has been that it's not a problem. These have such a nice linear phase relationship it's amazing. Also attached is a chart of the same cabinet before the refit while it still had a melded array (SPL is not calibrated on this chart) - notice how the phase relationship of the piezo array is much more ragged. This may or may not be of any consequence, but the ribbons are much better at rejecting feedback, and they sound better with a single cab in play than the piezos do, even with both systems calibrated and EQd.
Thanks Brent.

The piezo frequency response looks amazingly flat and extends up to 20k easily - but the phase response is terrible. The ribbon is flat only 3k-10k , but with close to perfect phase response.

Peak SPL for 2 ribbons is about 117 dB. Any idea what the peak SPL for the melded piezo array is ??
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