Corner loading for the first time

[rec]

Nothing new here but just wanted to share my experience from a gig we played last night. My wife and I have a mobile DJ business and we played for a party last night in a rather large fire house. I stepped it off and it is roughly 55x80 with high ceilings. There was about 100 people there. We ran a pair of OT12's(deltalite 2512's) and a pair of T30's(4012HO) corner loaded. I set my sub amp attenuators where I normally do which is around the 28 or 29 mark. I got a remark that the bass was too loud so I backed them off to the 12 o'clock position and my BFM system idled through the night(4 hrs). I did not get to chance to take any measurements but this reinforces what has been said here many times. Boundary load, and corner load if possible. It makes a hugh difference. Thanks Bill!

[doncolga]

Nothing new here but just wanted to share my experience from a gig we played last night. My wife and I have a mobile DJ business and we played for a party last night in a rather large fire house. I stepped it off and it is roughly 55x80 with high ceilings. There was about 100 people there. We ran a pair of OT12's(deltalite 2512's) and a pair of T30's(4012HO) corner loaded. I set my sub amp attenuators where I normally do which is around the 28 or 29 mark. I got a remark that the bass was too loud so I backed them off to the 12 o'clock position and my BFM system idled through the night(4 hrs). I did not get to chance to take any measurements but this reinforces what has been said here many times. Boundary load, and corner load if possible. It makes a hugh difference. Thanks Bill!

Absolutely man. The first time I set up for a live gig with a perfect V plated corner load I could not believe the difference. This was probably a 70 x 70 room or so. On a walk around, I did not encounter a single bass null and it was deep and punchy as hell, but you could talk over it, and as you've described, my rig was idling. Luckily, I've found a local room that I hope to play in at least four times a year that will have a very similar setup, and I'll get to try it out with the T30's and OT12's in a couple of weeks. I should have photos and videos of that.

I went to this after about 18 years of split 18" subs with tops stacked on top, in the no go zone probably 98% of my gigs always wondering why my 18's sounded so crappy being driven with a 2400 watt amp in bridge mode.

Donny

[rec]

I walked around the whole room as well and there was not any where that the music did not sound good. On a funny side note a guy walks up and introduces himself. He said that he was a musician and as we were talking he kept looking over at the subs in the corner. Then he would look back the other way with a puzzled look on his face. Then he says "the subs are all on one side". I laughed to myself remembering all the gigs I played back in the 80's with one sub on each side. I enlightened him with the little bit of knowledge that I have acquired from this web site. I also directed him to this web site.

[doncolga]

I walked around the whole room as well and there was not any where that the music did not sound good. On a funny side note a guy walks up and introduces himself. He said that he was a musician and as we were talking he kept looking over at the subs in the corner. Then he would look back the other way with a puzzled look on his face. Then he says "the subs are all on one side". I laughed to myself remembering all the gigs I played back in the 80's with one sub on each side. I enlightened him with the little bit of knowledge that I have acquired from this web site. I also directed him to this web site.

I've told some folks about my Tuba 30's and I'm not sure if they believe me or not since they've not heard it for themselves yet. I emphasize the 12" and they seem skeptical., especially when I tell them my current tops have 15's (only until my OT12's are done). I know for my own ears, my 18" radiators never came even close to this.

I'm *so* hoping this possible local job I have coming up will just be completely kick ass all the way around, especially the sound of course. It's probably a 300 room capacity, about 50 x 50 x 16, so the pair of T30's and OT12's I expect will be fine. One of the local "sound companies" always splits subs when I've seen them. Their rig is big, and it's never knocked me out when I heard it. Visiting bands for our outdoor 4th of July special...same thing...local large college venue...same thing...local university performance center and another center for the arts...same thing. In fact, I've only seen one band setup, using the subs of a buddy drummer of mine, where the subs were centered in front of the stage. I guess subs just make such convenient stands...Its like I ask myself "do these people know what the subs should sound like?"...Now my last concert was Elton John in a 12000 capacity venue...coming in I just got chills...sound was just awesome and deep...that's what I expect of my own sound, and now I've finally got it...not on that scale of course. They split subs, but I'm sure they were more than 60 feet, and I believe I counted maybe twenty of them on the floor alone...not sure about the ones that may have been flown.

Anyway...I'll have a three piece for this gig instead of just me, with a bass player and another vocalist, while I'm on keys/guitar and vocals. I hope I'm not putting unnecessary pressure on myself, but honestly, I feel I've got something to prove on this job, feeling a bit like odd man out in my area, in a college town where bands are the rule. I guess I'll see how it goes, but I'm sure glad I got here and learned/applied some things before this opportunity arose. I'll definitely plan to be corner loaded and V plated.

[safebet]

I walked around the whole room as well and there was not any where that the music did not sound good.

Exactly as was my recent experience with a single T30 corner loaded into a 2000 sq ft room. Deep, sweet, solid and consistent throughout. In a word, beautiful.

...Its like I ask myself "do these people know what the subs should sound like?"...Now my last concert was Elton John in a 12000 capacity venue...coming in I just got chills...sound was just awesome and deep...that's what I expect of my own sound, and now I've finally got it...not on that scale of course.

I feel the same way. The deep stuff is wonderful and the dbx120 subharmonic synthesizer when used with lesser "subwoofers" just doesn't cut it, but through a capable horn you obtain the nice solid lows without all the nasty harmonics and boom.

One of the local "sound companies" always splits subs when I've seen them. Their rig is big, and it's never knocked me out when I heard it.

Next to the 2000 sq ft room was a 6500 sq ft room where a Shania Twain tribute band was to play that evening as well. I had my system up and was enjoying the heck out of it from about 1pm to 6pm while everyone else was off getting ready. I walked next door to see the sound company setting up the usual; 4 big powered monitors, huge dual 18" subs and tops to each side of the now installed stage...about 20 feet away from the back wall!

At one point, I can't remember if it was Paul Simon's "Kodachrome" or Chuck Mangione's "Feels So Good", I had it cranking with a nice blend of 120x synthesis and walked into the big room where the bass was just as strong and consistent after traveling across half the building. I mentioned to the kid running cables "Not bad for a single 12" woofer on 300 watts, huh?". Yes, he looked puzzled.

[SeisTres]

IMO, the subsynthesizers add more mud than anything. Basically I eq to taste and let the original recording shine through. I try to add nothing nor subtract from the recording. I've found this to sound best. No boominess, no shrill highs, or anything else that should not be in there.

[safebet]

IMO, the subsynthesizers add more mud than anything. Basically I eq to taste and let the original recording shine through. I try to add nothing nor subtract from the recording. I've found this to sound best. No boominess, no shrill highs, or anything else that should not be in there.

Yes, I agree to an extent. I would never listen to music at home with the synthesizer nor use one built into an amp where it couldn't easily be adjusted or defeated. But in a "live" situation, even recorded music it adds excitement. "Get of my Cloud" or a little "Barefootin'" from the 60's gets a boost to better compete with a Pink track.

My 120X lives on the ALT 3/4 loop of the old Mackie 1604 and returns on an aux loop. If I want the music to pump deep I press the pair of "mute" switches and, viola! Deep bass. The synth knob is right there to adjust. Obviously you would never use on a vocal mike, but my kick drum, now that's a different story.

IMO

[doncolga]

IMO, the subsynthesizers add more mud than anything. Basically I eq to taste and let the original recording shine through. I try to add nothing nor subtract from the recording. I've found this to sound best. No boominess, no shrill highs, or anything else that should not be in there.

Yes, I agree to an extent. I would never listen to music at home with the synthesizer nor use one built into an amp where it couldn't easily be adjusted or defeated. But in a "live" situation, even recorded music it adds excitement. "Get of my Cloud" or a little "Barefootin'" from the 60's gets a boost to better compete with a Pink track.

My 120X lives on the ALT 3/4 loop of the old Mackie 1604 and returns on an aux loop. If I want the music to pump deep I press the pair of "mute" switches and, viola! Deep bass. The synth knob is right there to adjust. Obviously you would never use on a vocal mike, but my kick drum, now that's a different story.

IMO

Hey Safebet,

First off...love your signature. In know Titans hit harder a little higher, but I agree, my Tuba 30's are beautiful too. Someday I hope to have at least two more. Second...virtual hi five on your 1604...that was my first real mixer. I got it back around 92 or so...don't really remember...should have never sold it...I'd likely be using it right now.

Speaking of the sub synth, I've never used one, or even seen one in person, but there is a local radio station that's alot punchier than others (in a good way) and I've wondered what was at work there. They play 70's through current adult contemporary, and there's no way all those songs have that much deep bass mixed in. What gets me is that my Tubas sing on songs with enough bass, but some mixed a little light on bass could use something...

Nice to see you here.

Donny

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

there is a local radio station that's alot punchier than others (in a good way) and I've wondered what was at work there. They play 70's through current adult contemporary, and there's no way all those songs have that much deep bass mixed in.

It may be the recording. Most remixes done in the last ten years sound quite different from the original mixes, especially those from the '60s.

[Bruce Weldy]

there is a local radio station that's alot punchier than others (in a good way) and I've wondered what was at work there. They play 70's through current adult contemporary, and there's no way all those songs have that much deep bass mixed in.

It may be the recording. Most remixes done in the last ten years sound quite different from the original mixes, especially those from the '60s.

+1

We just didn't seem to care as much about bass in the 70s. A couple of years ago I got the remixed " The Yes Album" and compared it to the original....the remix sounds much better. More bass was a good thing in the music world, however the overuse of compression has squashed the dynamics out of everything on the radio.

[safebet]

doncolga wrote:
there is a local radio station that's alot punchier than others (in a good way) and I've wondered what was at work there. They play 70's through current adult contemporary, and there's no way all those songs have that much deep bass mixed in.


It may be the recording. Most remixes done in the last ten years sound quite different from the original mixes, especially those from the '60s.

+1 It seems a little more work is done these days on "remasters" than when they originally cookie cut CD's to get product out on first release. Sometimes this is to good effect, and other times...well. One of my favorite albums from the 70's is the debut Klaatu album which was very dynamic, but the Bullseye remaster a few years back absolutely slaughtered it. Gone. Dead. Never to be retrieved again. Fortunately I also have the Bob Norberg remastered version to enjoy. But I digress.

So dynamics are so very important too and sound does not breathe without it. The better sounding radio station may do better with retention of these dynamics, maintaining volume while avoiding over modulation of the carrier.

I don't wish to highjack this thread though! Corner loading can't be beat and thanks are due to Bill and this forum for changing mindsets of many. It would suffice to say that if its in the source the Tuba 30 will deliver when used as recommended.

What gets me is that my Tubas sing on songs with enough bass, but some mixed a little light on bass could use something...

True with any material and at home I appreciate those subtleties. I agree with SeisTres to reproduce as faithfully as possible as sibilance and boom wear thin and fatigue the ears quickly. But when the gear gets to a party I like to play a little!

Thanks for the well wishes.

Tom