Titan 39 3012LF Optimal Width

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Rickisan
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Titan 39 3012LF Optimal Width

#1 Post by Rickisan »

Having done some searches and coming up empty I am hoping to get some advice on recommended width to build two Titan 39's. I used to know this stuff but that was 8-10 years ago after spending many hours reading the fascinating content herein. After a break of some 5-6 years I am back and rarin' to go... as kind of a newbie retread and sadly many of the specifics have become vague. So anyone who feels like taking the time to point me to links, or other, it is appreciated. Meanwhile I will keep reading:)
2-Jack 10
2-Wedgehorn 8
1-Auto Tuba

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Seth
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Re: Titan 39 3012LF Optimal Width

#2 Post by Seth »

Rickisan wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:12 pm Having done some searches and coming up empty I am hoping to get some advice on recommended width to build two Titan 39's. I used to know this stuff but that was 8-10 years ago after spending many hours reading the fascinating content herein. After a break of some 5-6 years I am back and rarin' to go... as kind of a newbie retread and sadly many of the specifics have become vague. So anyone who feels like taking the time to point me to links, or other, it is appreciated. Meanwhile I will keep reading:)
Welcome back!

I believe the optimum width is 30". However, the most recent plans state 28" as a maximum recommended width. IIRC, Bill mentioned at one point that he changed the width in the plans due to being able to fit through most doorways with a minimal compromise in sensitivity... rumored (from other sources) to only be 1-2dB less than the previous 30" maximum recommended width.

I plan to build mine 30". But, 28"" might work better for you if you want to be able to wheel them through most doorways without having to scoot them through sideways.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Grant Bunter
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Re: Titan 39 3012LF Optimal Width

#3 Post by Grant Bunter »

SethRocksYou wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:56 pm Welcome back!
+1

I believe the optimum width is 30". However, the most recent plans state 28" as a maximum recommended width. IIRC, Bill mentioned at one point that he changed the width in the plans due to being able to fit through most doorways with a minimal compromise in sensitivity... rumored (from other sources) to only be 1-2dB less than the previous 30" maximum recommended width.

I plan to build mine 30". But, 28"" might work better for you if you want to be able to wheel them through most doorways without having to scoot them through sideways.

There's a thing with that as mentioned by Seth.
Turn the cab sideways, and hey presto, the opening only needs to be greater than 19 1/2 inches.
Having built 28" wide T39's with 3012lf's, I can tell you that handling these cabs, as a fella who's 5'9", isn't impossible to do, without help, for the purpose of getting cabs through a doorway. Dragging, even lifting that cab through a doorway for a few seconds is easily doable.
I often do this by myself at a venue, or spinning them around 180 degree when packing my truck, and don't think twice about it.
If it was a 200lb cab needing more hands, I'd certainly consider other aspects as well.
If the doorway was the only obstacle and you have wheels on the cabs for the straight runs, don't consider that to be an issue IMHO.
While there is diminished returns after a certain width meaning it's not viable to build beyond that point, the criteria for sub width more often than not should revolve around pack space.
Why? If you're looking to extract every last bit of output you can from one or two cabs, you really should build more.

There's another criteria as well.
Maximum efficiency from sheets of ply.
2 x 28" wide T39's chew up about 4 1/2 sheets of 8 x 4 ply.

However, if you rip 8 x 4 sheets straight up the middle with say 1/8" saw kerf for the internal panels, you end up with cabs that measure just under 25" wide, and you'll save quite a bit of ply at the same time. This size may also be way more pack friendly.

So, if that seems attractive, compare the 24" and 30" wide SPL charts to garner the output differential, do some sums, calculate pack space, build! :)

Oh, BTW, those 2 x 28" 3012lf loaded cabs outdo the other 4 x BP102 loaded 20" wide cabs. Not measured, but I can tell...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Seth
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Re: Titan 39 3012LF Optimal Width

#4 Post by Seth »

Grant Bunter wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:37 am Oh, BTW, those 2 x 28" 3012lf loaded cabs outdo the other 4 x BP102 loaded 20" wide cabs. Not measured, but I can tell...
I'd love it if you'd test that someday. By the numbers the two stacks should be nearly identical.

Side note; Rational Acoustics has a free 90 trial period on SMAART at the moment. Could be a fun little experiment.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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Seth
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Re: Titan 39 3012LF Optimal Width

#5 Post by Seth »

Rickisan wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:12 pm ...point me to links...
Titan 39 SPL Charts/Comparisons
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Rickisan
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:07 pm
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
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Re: Titan 39 3012LF Optimal Width

#6 Post by Rickisan »

Thank you SethRocksYou and Grant Bunter. I have availed myself of the SQL charts Seth and read your informative comments Grant. I should have been more specific to start... I have on hand two of the old style Jack 10's, two Wedgehorn 8's and an Autotuba. Like all of them. The Jacks and Wedges are all I ever aspire to use in any situation of small venues with 100-250 people.

I desire to add the Titan's to run with this current modest set-up. So possibly a smallish width 3012LF is the way to go. The 3010LF is similar expense and approx 40% less Vd. With build time and purchase cost so similar seems logical to go with the greater capacity of the 12" driver? I know it is recommended to keep a balance of SPL between the tops and subs. Thanks again.
2-Jack 10
2-Wedgehorn 8
1-Auto Tuba

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Re: Titan 39 3012LF Optimal Width

#7 Post by Seth »

This is ONE 16" T39 (3012LF loaded) and a pair of QSC K12.2's at about 100' out...




A note about the 16" width; it's shown as an option in the charts section, however it's not a size that's within the possibilities the current plans dictate. The minimum width for a T39 loaded with a 12" driver is 15", and the plans state any wider cab must be at least 1½" wider than the narrowest, or 16½" with a 12" driver.

In any case, just build them the widest you can see as being manageable. A pair of slim 15"ers will cover your needs and anything wider will just be gravy.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

Grant Bunter
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Re: Titan 39 3012LF Optimal Width

#8 Post by Grant Bunter »

Arrrrrrr ok then, now I see.

You’re right, with the cost of both being similar, perhaps going with the 3012lf makes more sense. The minimum width for a 12 is 15” IIRC. Yet , for me, it seems a waste to put the best driver in a small box, when, as you say, it takes time to build.

That you’re considering one box, well, another as well is best. You can always turn down. You will also need to get DSP eg a driverack when you add subs, even for one cab.

Have you got updated plans yet? There is also a more budget model 10” driver that can be limited to 45V, which you can put in 20” wide cabs...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Rickisan
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:07 pm
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
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Re: Titan 39 3012LF Optimal Width

#9 Post by Rickisan »

SethRocksYou
Nice video, really shows what the cab can do outside. Keeping in mind all the attendant parameters limiting the actual performance reproduction. Phone spkrs, phone microphone,etc😀 I am leaning strongly toward the smallest box within 5-10lbs of the 15” width. So now to investigate width vs weight estimates. Thanks again for helping me get back up to speed here at BFM.
2-Jack 10
2-Wedgehorn 8
1-Auto Tuba

Rickisan
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:07 pm
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Re: Titan 39 3012LF Optimal Width

#10 Post by Rickisan »

Grant Bunter
Much appreciate the discourse. I am leaning toward the smaller side of things but agree it seems a shame if there are significant gains to building wider. Especially if the weight difference is manageable.
I definitely am shooting for two boxes. The second one should take only half as long to complete:)
The driverack/crossover sound management piece I have been wanting to learn for awhile. Have had a Behringer deq2496 sitting in the closet unused since new 6-7 years ago :wall:
It did turn on when I plugged it in:)
I would hesitate to go the budget driver route while spending the time to build the cabs. If for nothing more than the enhanced durability, power handling and more, of the premium driver. More bullet proofness so to speak.
Ok I will check in periodically. Cheers
2-Jack 10
2-Wedgehorn 8
1-Auto Tuba

Grant Bunter
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
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Re: Titan 39 3012LF Optimal Width

#11 Post by Grant Bunter »

Rickisan wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:44 pm Grant Bunter
Much appreciate the discourse. I am leaning toward the smaller side of things but agree it seems a shame if there are significant gains to building wider. Especially if the weight difference is manageable.
I definitely am shooting for two boxes. The second one should take only half as long to complete:)
The driverack/crossover sound management piece I have been wanting to learn for awhile. Have had a Behringer deq2496 sitting in the closet unused since new 6-7 years ago :wall:
It did turn on when I plugged it in:)
I would hesitate to go the budget driver route while spending the time to build the cabs. If for nothing more than the enhanced durability, power handling and more, of the premium driver. More bullet proofness so to speak.
Ok I will check in periodically. Cheers
Understood regarding the premium driver.

The DEQ 2496 is an EQ/RTA and feedback device.
If you instead meant Behringer DCX 2496 (not DEQ) for crossover/limiting as well as PEQ, you're good to go.
How much PEQ you have is dependant on which version you own.
Here's a bit of light reading, I wrote this a while back about how to set one up:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20833

Let us know if there's anything we can help with...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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