Limiter Settings for running BRIDGED

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DJ.LJ
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:15 pm
Location: Valparaiso, IN

Limiter Settings for running BRIDGED

#1 Post by DJ.LJ »

I am running an XTI 4002 to power 2 x T48s with 18 sound 15"s wired parallel (still have not finished up the other 4 because I really only need 2 right now since the bar is not able to be crowded any longer.) I am also not able to run them in the corner because they are way to loud for me as I am only about 4 feet from them. I moved them in front of me. Now I don't get pounded with bass for 4 hrs straight.

I was running on a normal 2 channel mode but you can only get about 59v before the red clip light blinks so I tested on running it bridged this Saturday at the gig.

I set the limiter to 70v without a load on the amp. The amp is barely running at this level. I did this at home and thought all was good. When I ran it at the gig the meter was running into the 100v+ range!! I turned down the gains on the amp so it would not some close to that.

I am assuming this is due to me running bridged into 2 x 8 ohm subs wired parallel. But I really don't know. I just read somewhere it adds 6db when you bridge and that I should reduce it that much. I thought it would be the same method for the limiter but I guess not?>?

I know it is not recommended to run bridged but in order to reach 70v without running the amp into thermal/clipping, I must. I have another XTI 2002 I could use instead. Should I run this one bridged and set the limiter 6db lower than when it is set at 70v without a load?
= Built
4 -T39 X 24" .. 3012LF
2 x 2x6 SLA Pros
2 x 4x6 SLA Pros

= Equipment
DJM 900 SRT
CDJ 2000 Nexus x2
DDJ SZ
DBX DRIVERACK PX and PA2
DENON MC6000MK2
Crown XTI 2002 x3
Crown XTI 4002
Crown XTI 4000

= Building
4 x DR 250's
6 x T48s

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Limiter Settings for running BRIDGED

#2 Post by Bruce Weldy »

DJ.LJ wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:48 am I am running an XTI 4002 to power 2 x T48s with 18 sound 15"s wired parallel (still have not finished up the other 4 because I really only need 2 right now since the bar is not able to be crowded any longer.) I am also not able to run them in the corner because they are way to loud for me as I am only about 4 feet from them. I moved them in front of me. Now I don't get pounded with bass for 4 hrs straight.

I was running on a normal 2 channel mode but you can only get about 59v before the red clip light blinks so I tested on running it bridged this Saturday at the gig.

I set the limiter to 70v without a load on the amp. The amp is barely running at this level. I did this at home and thought all was good. When I ran it at the gig the meter was running into the 100v+ range!! I turned down the gains on the amp so it would not some close to that.

I am assuming this is due to me running bridged into 2 x 8 ohm subs wired parallel. But I really don't know. I just read somewhere it adds 6db when you bridge and that I should reduce it that much. I thought it would be the same method for the limiter but I guess not?>?

I know it is not recommended to run bridged but in order to reach 70v without running the amp into thermal/clipping, I must. I have another XTI 2002 I could use instead. Should I run this one bridged and set the limiter 6db lower than when it is set at 70v without a load?
The 4002 should get you 72 volts at 8 ohms based on the Crown rating of the amp.

Please tell us exactly how you came up with the 59 volt number and the 100 volt number. Are you actually putting a volt meter on the outputs of the amp?

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

DJ.LJ
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:15 pm
Location: Valparaiso, IN

Re: Limiter Settings for running BRIDGED

#3 Post by DJ.LJ »

Yes. I put volt meter on the terminals of the bridged configuration.

Turn gain all the way up.

Set limiter in band manager to 70v with all gains full out.

Now once I get the speakers hooked to it @4 ohm series the voltage still goes above 70v.
= Built
4 -T39 X 24" .. 3012LF
2 x 2x6 SLA Pros
2 x 4x6 SLA Pros

= Equipment
DJM 900 SRT
CDJ 2000 Nexus x2
DDJ SZ
DBX DRIVERACK PX and PA2
DENON MC6000MK2
Crown XTI 2002 x3
Crown XTI 4002
Crown XTI 4000

= Building
4 x DR 250's
6 x T48s

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Seth
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Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Re: Limiter Settings for running BRIDGED

#4 Post by Seth »

DJ.LJ wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:27 pm Yes. I put volt meter on the terminals of the bridged configuration.

Turn gain all the way up.

Set limiter in band manager to 70v with all gains full out.

Now once I get the speakers hooked to it @4 ohm series the voltage still goes above 70v.
What content are you putting through the amp when testing the output voltage with your meter?
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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Seth
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Re: Limiter Settings for running BRIDGED

#5 Post by Seth »

DJ.LJ wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:27 pm Yes. I put volt meter on the terminals of the bridged configuration.

Turn gain all the way up.

Set limiter in band manager to 70v with all gains full out.

Now once I get the speakers hooked to it @4 ohm series the voltage still goes above 70v.
I just downloaded the Band Manager App and took a look at what your talking about. That's a darn nice GUI. It will be nice when networked control apps are just standard feature on all amps.

Did you actually test the output voltage after setting the Limiter in the GUI?

Granted, I was only able to use it in Demo Mode, what I noticed is that whether the bridge mode was selected or not, the maximum value in the limiter window did not change to a voltage value double what it was without bridging. For a 4002, the highest it will let me limit is 69 volts, even when bridged. What I'm thinking is, it may be an oversight in the App design and you may have to set the Voltage Limit in the GUI limiter at HALF your intended voltage when bridging the amp to get your desired voltage limit. Might give that a try, and always verify the output does not go over your intended voltage with a Multi-Meter while running a 60Hz sine wave through it before hooking the speakers up.

Also, you're using the 15NLW9300 driver right? Plans say the limit is 80 volts. Try setting the limiter to 40 volts and see if you get 80 at the output terminals.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

DJ.LJ
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:15 pm
Location: Valparaiso, IN

Re: Limiter Settings for running BRIDGED

#6 Post by DJ.LJ »

SethRocksYou wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:21 pm
DJ.LJ wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:27 pm Yes. I put volt meter on the terminals of the bridged configuration.

Turn gain all the way up.

Set limiter in band manager to 70v with all gains full out.

Now once I get the speakers hooked to it @4 ohm series the voltage still goes above 70v.
I just downloaded the Band Manager App and took a look at what your talking about. That's a darn nice GUI. It will be nice when networked control apps are just standard feature on all amps.

Did you actually test the output voltage after setting the Limiter in the GUI?

Granted, I was only able to use it in Demo Mode, what I noticed is that whether the bridge mode was selected or not, the maximum value in the limiter window did not change to a voltage value double what it was without bridging. For a 4002, the highest it will let me limit is 69 volts, even when bridged. What I'm thinking is, it may be an oversight in the App design and you may have to set the Voltage Limit in the GUI limiter at HALF your intended voltage when bridging the amp to get your desired voltage limit. Might give that a try, and always verify the output does not go over your intended voltage with a Multi-Meter while running a 60Hz sine wave through it before hooking the speakers up.

Also, you're using the 15NLW9300 driver right? Plans say the limit is 80 volts. Try setting the limiter to 40 volts and see if you get 80 at the output terminals.
Yes. I used a 60hz sine to test it. Even bypassed the driverack

Your right. The limit maxes out at 69 I think because it clips hard around 60.

I was using the db limiting instead of the volt because of that limit.

I will try cutting it in half and see what happens. It kinda makes sense though. It was putting out serious voltage until I turned the input gains down.

Messed up thing is is I can’t even test these at home because I did that last week with just one and neighbors from six houses down came over and complain and this was at 4 PM with my garage door closed.

I guess that worked out I just took it out to my warehouse and tested them free air outside and was able to run the auto EQ and everything.

What’s even funnier is I do not remember the voltage spike when I did that test. I am not sure if I even looked or not to be honest. I was just trying to eq it without causing the surrounding houses in the area (probably half mile closest one) calling on me.
= Built
4 -T39 X 24" .. 3012LF
2 x 2x6 SLA Pros
2 x 4x6 SLA Pros

= Equipment
DJM 900 SRT
CDJ 2000 Nexus x2
DDJ SZ
DBX DRIVERACK PX and PA2
DENON MC6000MK2
Crown XTI 2002 x3
Crown XTI 4002
Crown XTI 4000

= Building
4 x DR 250's
6 x T48s

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Seth
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Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:06 pm
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Re: Limiter Settings for running BRIDGED

#7 Post by Seth »

You should be able to set them at home. There's no reason to hook the speakers up when setting the limiter. All you need is the amp, an input source (60 Hz), and a DMM.

As far as neighbors go, I've found them to be way more accepting of some noise if I drop by a day or two ahead of time and tell them I'll be testing from a specific time to a specific time and ask them if that time frame works for them. If not, is there a better time? If I treat people like people, they tend to treat me pretty reasonably as well. It's when I don't give a crap what they may be doing and blatantly disturb the whole neighborhood, that people do get a bit grumpy.

Glad they're pounding though! That's awesome! Congratulations :thumbsup:

I'm curious if that solves the issue.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

User avatar
Seth
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Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Re: Limiter Settings for running BRIDGED

#8 Post by Seth »

Were you able to get this sorted? Did setting the voltage in the GUI to half get you the results you were looking for?
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded

Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421

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