Speaker wire gauge?

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Votandrums
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Speaker wire gauge?

#1 Post by Votandrums » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:43 pm

I'm getting to the part of my 2 titan 48 builds where I need to run the wire in the cabinets. I looked in the plans and dont recall seeing what gauge wire to use. Also what gauge wire should i use for my speakon cables from the amps to the subs. I was gonna make the 25' long each. I'll be making 4 conductor speakon cables so i can have a short run from the subs to tops. I love this forum I've already learned so much. I'll hopefully have a review for my titan 48's at the end of August.

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Re: Speaker wire gauge?

#2 Post by SethRocksYou » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:05 pm

Page 21
"Drill a hole for speaker wire through panel 3 and install 14 or 16 gauge polarized speaker wire."

For runs of 25' I think the same will be fine, although I'd personally choose 12Ga

Image


I look forward to your impressions and review :thumbsup:
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One 16" T39, 3012LF loaded
20" Tall AutoTuba loaded with 2 8" MCM 55-2421
8½" TruckTuba loaded with 2 8" MCM 55-2421

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Speaker wire gauge?

#3 Post by Bruce Weldy » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:47 pm

Votandrums wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:43 pm
I'll be making 4 conductor speakon cables so i can have a short run from the subs to tops. .
Not a good idea. Very rarely should your tops and subs be in the same location. Subs should be clustered together. Stick with 12ga. two conductor speaker cable. Since the amps are almost always on one side or the other - make a three 15-20 feet and three 35-40. That allows you flexibility when placing sub and or tops in various locations. Personally, I'd have even more of varying lengths to keep the runs as short as possible.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

himhimself
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Re: Speaker wire gauge?

#4 Post by himhimself » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:10 pm

Watch out for the copper clad aluminum stuff (CCA). If you use CCA, you should bump up a size to match pure copper. I run relatively short 12g to my subs, 14g or 16g to the tops. Inside my tubas, I think I ran 14g, but it may be 12g. :confused:
2xT30 (20", 3012lf)
4xOtop Jarray

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Speaker wire gauge?

#5 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:15 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:47 pm
Votandrums wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:43 pm
I'll be making 4 conductor speakon cables so i can have a short run from the subs to tops. .
Not a good idea. Very rarely should your tops and subs be in the same location.
True. But if the amps are located well away from the speakers then it can be advantageous to use a 4 conductor cable to get the signal from the amps to the subs, then use 2 conductor cables to get the signal from the subs to the mains. In effect the subs are use as distribution blocks.

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Re: Speaker wire gauge?

#6 Post by Bruce Weldy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:29 am

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:15 pm
Bruce Weldy wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:47 pm
Votandrums wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:43 pm
I'll be making 4 conductor speakon cables so i can have a short run from the subs to tops. .
Not a good idea. Very rarely should your tops and subs be in the same location.
True. But if the amps are located well away from the speakers then it can be advantageous to use a 4 conductor cable to get the signal from the amps to the subs, then use 2 conductor cables to get the signal from the subs to the mains. In effect the subs are use as distribution blocks.
Absolutely true and I do that myself with a 4 conductor cable to run two amp channels of subs with my big system, but if you aren't doing that all the time, then you have some cables wired using 2+/2- to 1+/1- that are useless in other setups. Unless of course, you wire the 2+/2- of the fist cab connector to the 1+1- of the second connector - but then you must label the input/output connectors on the cab for it to work. And instruct anyone whoever helps how they are set up.

It certainly works, but it does add a little complexity to the setup ...... and signal flow seems to be a lost art in today's digital world. :mrgreen:

The more idiot-proof way would be to build a 50 footer of 4 conductor with two speakons on the amp end and a small breakout box on the other end with two panel mount connectors labeled subs and tops. It's a essentially a speaker snake.

But, I'm still partial to 2 conductor cable that can do anything, anytime. One extra cable to get to the other side of the stage isn't a big deal.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Re: Speaker wire gauge?

#7 Post by SethRocksYou » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:53 am

Interesting points I hadn't considered. :thumbsup:

What about the option of using all 4 conductor and putting an A/B toggle in each speaker? Seems to me, the ultimate in flexibility. I really only mention it as a possibility. Not that it's superior to any other option. Could us them for subs and tops, BiAmped speakers, multi channel Line Arrays with or without powershading, and 4+ stacks of Titans/Tubas. Is there a down side (other than one more thing to wear out, break, and fix) ?
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One 16" T39, 3012LF loaded
20" Tall AutoTuba loaded with 2 8" MCM 55-2421
8½" TruckTuba loaded with 2 8" MCM 55-2421

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Speaker wire gauge?

#8 Post by Bruce Weldy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:20 am

SethRocksYou wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:53 am

Is there a down side (other than one more thing to wear out, break, and fix) ?
That's not enough? :mrgreen:

It's just a case of adding complexity, where one mistake (depending on how you wired it) could end up frying your tops.

But as DIYers, sometimes we do things just because we can. And that's ok....

There are many ways to build cabling schemes - I just always try to make 'em as idiot-proof (including my own occasional acts of dumbassery) as possible.

I recently upgraded a friend of mine's band with some stage snakes. They were making homerun cable connections with 15 channels of mics, 2 mains, 1 sub, and 4 monitors.....all powered gear (yuk). Put a 12x4 snake up front for all the mics, directs, and 3 of the monitors - along with one Main output. Then took a standard 8 input snake and reversed the connectors on number 8 to be the return for the drummer's wedge. Just took two connectors and a little solder time.

Their stage setup time is down by probably 20 minutes....and connections are being made with 10,15, 20 cables instead of 30s and 50s to get all the way across the stage.

So, any wiring scheme that makes your life easier is wonderful as long as you keep it simple to understand and label the hell out of it!

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Re: Speaker wire gauge?

#9 Post by SethRocksYou » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:53 am

LOL

Good point about a mistake and frying a top. And lots of value in the story too. Thanks for sharing that Bruce.
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One 16" T39, 3012LF loaded
20" Tall AutoTuba loaded with 2 8" MCM 55-2421
8½" TruckTuba loaded with 2 8" MCM 55-2421

Votandrums
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Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:56 pm

Re: Speaker wire gauge?

#10 Post by Votandrums » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:51 pm

I totally missed that. I swear I looked at the plans 2-3 times. Shows how distracted you can be when your 4 yr old is running around the shop. I'll clarify. I don't plan on putting the tops on top of the subs. They will be v-plated at the center of the stage but it will be a short run from the subs to the tops than the tops to the amp tank. I already have my 4 conductor speakon cables so I'm gonna wire the subs like in the plans for a pass through. Thanks for the suggestions. I'm gonna be doing our first show with the t-48's on August 31st. It's an outdoor gig so we'll see what they can do. I have a feeling im gonna cringe because the tops are 2 jbl jrx 215's. Mud city. I'll have OT 12's in the near future. All of my band mates are sceptical I can't wait to see thier faces when the get kicking.

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Re: Speaker wire gauge?

#11 Post by Bruce Weldy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:14 pm

The OT12 will sound much better than the JRX....a box that JBL should never have put their name on....or, as my English teacher would say, a box on which JBL should have never put their name.

Wouldn't want you to think I was a hick..... :noob:

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Speaker wire gauge?

#12 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:23 pm

SethRocksYou wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:53 am
What about ... putting an A/B toggle in each speaker?
Not necessary if you follow the plans. If all the subs and sub amps use the 1+1- poles and all the tops and top amps use the 2+2- poles you can't connect a speaker to the wrong amp.

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Re: Speaker wire gauge?

#13 Post by NukePooch » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:39 pm

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:20 am
I recently upgraded a friend of mine's band with some stage snakes.
Their stage setup time is down by probably 20 minutes....and connections are being made with 10,15, 20 cables instead of 30s and 50s to get all the way across the stage.

So, any wiring scheme that makes your life easier is wonderful as long as you keep it simple to understand and label the hell out of it!
Agree completely. Stage snakes are worth their weight in gold. It's why I have plans on getting a couple digi stage boxes even though I don't need more inputs. It would simply be so I don't have to wind up a rat's nest of 30-50' XLR's at the end of the night.

Agree even more so about labeling. I've had a lot of guys tease me about being so anal about labeling...but when the fit hits the shan, they don't say a word when I can easily point out 'where that one cable goes' in the middle of the show.
Built:
4 Jack 112L- 3012HO, melded array
17.5 wide AutoTuba with Infinity 860w
6 Wedgehorn W6 w/ Panel Mount Piezos
2 T48 Slims (15" wide) with 3012LF
4 T48 Fattys (32" wide) with 3015LF

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