4 tubas v-plated

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stduncan
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:19 pm

4 tubas v-plated

#1 Post by stduncan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:32 am

I did my first show this weekend with all four tuba 30s plated. All I can say is WOW. Very impressive. This was outdoors with no boundary reinforcement. Indoors this would be moving things around I imagine. The only exception I've been noticing about the impeccable sound quality is when the low pass is above 80ish. 100-125hz really sounds terrible out of these. Almost something like a coloration from resonance. I've tried this with 1, 2 and 4 tubas now and it sounds consistently bad to me, so I don't think the same mistake was made on all 4. Does anyone else notice this and cross lower?

himhimself
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:34 pm
Location: Bloomington IN

Re: 4 tubas v-plated

#2 Post by himhimself » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:11 am

I've been v-plating my pair and crossing over at 110hz. Haven't noticed anything that sounds off at all. What driver's did you use?
2xT30 (20", 3012lf)
4xOtop Jarray

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6804
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: 4 tubas v-plated

#3 Post by Bruce Weldy » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:17 am

stduncan wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:32 am
100-125hz really sounds terrible out of these.
You didn't say exactly where your crossover points are. If you are running your tops full range and the subs up to 125, yeah....it's going to sound bad in that range.

Tell us your actual setup. High pass and low pass.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

stduncan
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:19 pm

Re: 4 tubas v-plated

#4 Post by stduncan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:57 pm

I'm using 3012lf's and yorkville e15's. It I have my crossovers running through either behringer inuke built-in DSP or driverack pa2, depending on the show. I have tried different combos in the 70-125 range with 12db Butterworth and -12db where they cross.

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1646
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: 4 tubas v-plated

#5 Post by CoronaOperator » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:08 pm

stduncan wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:57 pm
I'm using 3012lf's and yorkville e15's. It I have my crossovers running through either behringer inuke built-in DSP or driverack pa2, depending on the show. I have tried different combos in the 70-125 range with 12db Butterworth and -12db where they cross.
Bump up the slope of your crossover to 24 dB/octave, try using L/R slopes, then set your top boxes to ~100 hz, and your subwoofers to ~70 - 75 hz.

There won't be any "hole" in the response as the slopes are slopes and not cliffs. Due to the rising response of the tuba 30's between 60-100 hz, the gap in the crossover and the slope should flatten that out.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

stduncan
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:19 pm

Re: 4 tubas v-plated

#6 Post by stduncan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:45 pm

CoronaOperator wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:08 pm

Bump up the slope of your crossover to 24 dB/octave, try using L/R slopes, then set your top boxes to ~100 hz, and your subwoofers to ~70 - 75 hz.

There won't be any "hole" in the response as the slopes are slopes and not cliffs. Due to the rising response of the tuba 30's between 60-100 hz, the gap in the crossover and the slope should flatten that out.
Thanks. I'll try that.

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1646
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: 4 tubas v-plated

#7 Post by CoronaOperator » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:05 pm

... also make sure your polarity on the subs is in phase with the tops acoustically. Play a ~100 hz tone through the whole system, go out front and listen, then swap the polarity on the DSP of the subs. Which ever way is loudest wins. Easiest with 2 people or if the DSP is out front so you can hear each way back to back.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

ACUA
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:21 pm

Re: 4 tubas v-plated

#8 Post by ACUA » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:25 pm

This may not be useful but I have been configuring my 4 t45 subs with my otop12s with:
Subs low passed 18db slope at 60hz and my otops high passed 18db at 100hz and this combo seems to work out pretty well to my ear and on my room wizard eq. Every now and again I mess with it and always come back to that setting.

My sub horns become real sensitive above 80-100hz and I start getting muddy real quick if I don’t filter out the high stuff
Advanced concepts underground audio

commander_dan
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:19 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: 4 tubas v-plated

#9 Post by commander_dan » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:09 pm

My settings are different again..

Subs LP: 100hz But24
Tops HP: 100hz But24
Butterworth 24db slopes damp most of the subs rising response and using EQ to tame the remainder. Crossover region sounds perfect, regardless of indoors or outdoors.
Built:
6 T30 (24", 3012LF)
2 OT12 (MA, 3012HO)
2 T24 (18", 3010LF)

Running:
DCX2496
XTi 2002
XTi 4002
TRAKTOR Z2
TECHNICS 1210 Mk5's

ACUA
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:21 pm

Re: 4 tubas v-plated

#10 Post by ACUA » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:24 pm

concerning what commander posted above, I need to try what he has done, that is to cross over higher on the sub channel and mess with some eq on the sub circuit potentially get improved results. I am admittedly lazy to do so as I believe I have it pretty good the way it is and I worry less about cascade filtration therefore. When done the way I posted above with the low pass of the sub being 60hz But18 slope, I tend to attenuate the sub channel less which gives me more low end grunt while keeping the upper bass blending well with the mid drivers. this set up does real good with war volume dance music, edm, hip hop, modern upbeat pop, when we gig for dances usually my RTA is quite hot from 60hz and down if the venue will allow it.

I have a gig coming up in a few weeks where the music is mostly back ground mood and the client does not want a lot of bass. I am going to attempt to cross higher and just attenuate the sub channel to get the proper blend to the mids, I will be able to take some stress off of the mids that way. that should be an effective way to attenuate the low annoying bass(not my opinion) and maintain a crisp sharp snap to the kick and snare as well as keep the bass guitar notes smooth and full.
Advanced concepts underground audio

JoelJ
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 6:10 am

Re: 4 tubas v-plated

#11 Post by JoelJ » Tue May 07, 2019 7:58 am

Hey new guy here how do I make a post thread separate?

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 6804
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: 4 tubas v-plated

#12 Post by Bruce Weldy » Tue May 07, 2019 10:54 am

JoelJ wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 7:58 am
Hey new guy here how do I make a post thread separate?
Click on New Topic and start it in the appropriate section.

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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