Never Mix T48 with T60 ? What if?

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eshadeol
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Never Mix T48 with T60 ? What if?

#1 Post by eshadeol » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:27 am

I'm not sure I want to go this route, but , I definitely don't have the muscle to lift 2 more T60's into my truck, it would be a PITA to get them off the truck with the trailer attached, the trailer already has 4 T60's along with whatever else - it's perfectly packed to the brim.

I'm looking to add the chest coughing frequency and starting out with 2 T48's loaded with the Eminence 4015ULF (X) 2 cabs. In terms of an auditory description of what I'm looking to get, it is that live / solid sound in the kick drum region from songs like : The Unforgiven - Metallica, Bon Jovi - You Give Love A Bad Name, Rush - Tom Sawyer : Those types of kick drum.?

My ears were more trained for sloppy mud territory, but I've developed over a few sessions with my system and have tuned it to not be so low, however , when those frequencies do occur on a few tracks I have -- GOD damn :shock: there's nothing missing (for my little simple pleasures anyway).

My tops are 2 JBL SRX725 , 2 PHOENIX EV2125, this sounds great to me when splayed correctly, though there's been a few times when the system wasn't splayed properly and sounded clanky and piercing, the left and right have to be separated by at least 18ft. All the tops are high passed at 70 -90 hz IIRC linkwitz riley not used - its the other one on the driverack. The tops pull off a good job. However, I was thinking to let the T60's handle everything between 25hz --> 70 hz, 2 T48's handling frequencies between 75hz/80hz --> 120 hz , and the tops handling everything else with the help of time alignment??

To me the system sounds ok , but I remember going to a gym setting up on the stage in the middle height above the basketball court by 4 ft and the T60's in the corner of the court off to the side of the tops and i walked way out in front to the opposite side and it was shaking doors , then walked back and feeling obnoxiously overpowered by the lows. In that situation I could've used the chest kick frequencies, I don't know what to do, I definitely want more definition in between 80- 150hz,, oh what to do. :fruit:

Yep, turns out I wish I'd been one of the people who built 6 T48's. I must've been thinking of car stereo low end so low that you can hear wind escaping the vehicle, but, not a note. I guess I was thinking the lower the better. Well , in terms of audio fidelity I guess one can say he's reached a pinnacle, but sees another pinnacle that has paradise on the summit. Just kidding. Fake waxing philosophically there , bad analogy.

With 6 T48'S if the track being played has many layers of bottom, bass , thumps , kicks , and swampy dynamics , wouldn't the T48'S be missing the ground pounding lowest lows while taking in those kicks and thumps?

I would like to buy the behringer speaker management rack unit, a capable amp, two 4015ulf, some wood and get started.
Defy the vortex -of mediocre-second rate bass- produced by mongrels- devoid of taste!
A beautiful lyric from : Maggotron "In Search of a Funky Khan"
4 T60 27" lab15,Omni TB 2 BP102,AutoTubaMCM 10"

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Never Mix T48 with T60 ? What if?

#2 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:05 am

eshadeol wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:27 am
I definitely want more definition in between 80- 150hz,, oh what to do.
Replace your mains, 80-150Hz isn't subwoofer territory.

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eshadeol
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Re: Never Mix T48 with T60 ? What if?

#3 Post by eshadeol » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:17 pm

I'll consider it.

Do you think there's a plot out there that has frequency response of 4 T60'S , 6 T60'S? I could swear that it was in the T60's plans at the ending pages , before it was minorly revised.

Point taken.
Defy the vortex -of mediocre-second rate bass- produced by mongrels- devoid of taste!
A beautiful lyric from : Maggotron "In Search of a Funky Khan"
4 T60 27" lab15,Omni TB 2 BP102,AutoTubaMCM 10"

CoronaOperator
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Re: Never Mix T48 with T60 ? What if?

#4 Post by CoronaOperator » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:40 pm

I can't see your JBL SRX725's lacking in the 80-150hz range. That sounds like a phase/polarity problem between the tops and subs.
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Re: Never Mix T48 with T60 ? What if?

#5 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:08 pm

Could be, the JBLs aren't great in sensitivity but should have adequate maximum output. It could be as simple as just boosting the EQ in that octave. Still, they're no competition for DR280s.

ACUA
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Re: Never Mix T48 with T60 ? What if?

#6 Post by ACUA » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:24 pm

Every time I have lacked that kick drum snap and eccencially 80-160hz range it is phasing and filter slope choices. When I started I wanted lows so I did tuba45 cabs. I don’t regret them but am wishing I did t48s. I would have regretted building t60s
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eshadeol
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Re: Never Mix T48 with T60 ? What if?

#7 Post by eshadeol » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:47 am

Well put fellas , good insightful input. I'm keeping this in mind for my next setup. I've no doubt that the DR250 - 280 - 300 are going to kick the JBL's / EV'S, especially in terms of output vs weight.

ACUA it's very satisfying to have someone else who had a similar experience. But now I think that trembling surreal experience OUTDOORS outweighs the need for more thick/ present "snap" in that kick. It's fantastic , because I would need to be indoors to gain the low frequency spl that I get now. I'm never indoors with my equipment.
Defy the vortex -of mediocre-second rate bass- produced by mongrels- devoid of taste!
A beautiful lyric from : Maggotron "In Search of a Funky Khan"
4 T60 27" lab15,Omni TB 2 BP102,AutoTubaMCM 10"

ACUA
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Re: Never Mix T48 with T60 ? What if?

#8 Post by ACUA » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:17 pm

I have a hand full of tracks that play hard below 30hz. I used to love shredding my vehicle with 26-35hz when I had dual 18” monster subwoofers in it. Most things I do with in pro sound don’t have much content that low. So if only 10% or less of the content played is that low it is not really justified to me exactly to have gear that is optimized for that. Most of my stuff is in the t48 range and I could have fit them into my operation easy enough. I really like my t45s and I like the low frequencies but the neighbors and cops don’t like it. Frankly most of my wedding clients don’t like it, only the more rare club type events really appreciate what I can do.

In order for me to get what I consider the correct mid bass range, after getting the best phase alignment and filter slope usage I can, I usually put a low pass shelf boost between 200-400hz at between +3-8db into my midrange band pass. depending on what I hear this usually warms up the vocals and puts some strength in the bass guitar and snap in the kick drum. The exact spot I land on the spectrum and the filter slope is determined by the cleanest vocals and cleanest bass guitar with the most warm authoritative punch I can get. I never really push or stress my gear so boosting that way is still easy to keep sounding good or I like to say correct. I tend to struggle wanting to highpass my otop12s at 120hz and then add in a low shelf at +6db cascading cluster really but for what ever reason I have had the best luck doing something like that I change my filter slopes way more than I should as well going from steep to shallow higher to lower xover points. I always want to optimize and improve so I find my self tinkering/fiddling.
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eshadeol
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Re: Never Mix T48 with T60 ? What if?

#9 Post by eshadeol » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:12 pm

I always want to optimize and improve so I find my self tinkering/fiddling.
My studio music teacher compressed his class into one phrase , "do whatever until it sounds good". Of course we needed the whole gamut of information since it was an elective class and people need to know about human hearing , subsonic frequency, threshold of hearing, etc..

So recently I rediscovered a Techmaster PEB track called D.P.E. apparently Destroy Planet Earth the 2000 version from Bass Computer 2000 by listening to the two YouTube versions there's a difference , then you get to try it in your headphones- wow, next is on the big rig -ohhh boy, the sounds of space and other things pacing in and out within that song - in the scale of our systems is amazing. I'd say beautiful. If you were ever into that music you might want to give it a try, as well as on headphones. https://youtu.be/PMfQ2C6zLjE

Last night I remembered to try out the bump of 90 - 140hz group, 120hz being maybe 2.5db on the graphic eq Behringer 2496 - it definitely made a difference. The rig didn't suffer from distortion or terrible overlapping of instruments down low (opposite of separation), there was separation. Of course I was in the back yard with a few Halloween parties going on in the neighborhood , so I only turned up halfway or even less on 1 or 2 songs and there was still plenty of distinctions/ separation down low, 150hz and lower.

It's definitely satisfying when you finally get the time alignment bugs / phase issues wrung out of the system after setting up laboriously for an hour. Can't always set up in the same spot.
Defy the vortex -of mediocre-second rate bass- produced by mongrels- devoid of taste!
A beautiful lyric from : Maggotron "In Search of a Funky Khan"
4 T60 27" lab15,Omni TB 2 BP102,AutoTubaMCM 10"

commander_dan
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Re: Never Mix T48 with T60 ? What if?

#10 Post by commander_dan » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:35 am

ACUA wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:17 pm
Most of my stuff is in the t48 range and I could have fit them into my operation easy enough. I really like my t45s and I like the low frequencies but the neighbors and cops don’t like it.
But the T48s, they'll love those :D
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