Mixing Speaker sizes

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daveode
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Mixing Speaker sizes

#1 Post by daveode » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:19 pm

would 12" and 15" loaded T48's play well with each other? sorry if this was answered before, i searched and couldn't get a definitive answer.

thanks, Dave
David Odell

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DJPhatman
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Re: Mixing Speaker sizes

#2 Post by DJPhatman » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:46 pm

Yes, using the same design works, regardless of driver. The only caveat is if the drivers have different voltage limits.
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

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daveode
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Re: Mixing Speaker sizes

#3 Post by daveode » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:54 pm

Cool! so if I have 4 T48's 24" wide, 2 loaded with 3015's and 2 loaded with 12NLW9300's i can high pass them at 35hz? voltages should be ok.
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4 - T39 28" wide (Lab12 12NLW9300)
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Re: Mixing Speaker sizes

#4 Post by DJPhatman » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:58 pm

daveode wrote:Cool! so if I have 4 T48's 24" wide, 2 loaded with 3015's and 2 loaded with 12NLW9300's i can high pass them at 35hz? voltages should be ok.
Yes, but your hold back is the 3015LFs, as their voltage limit is lower than the 18Sounds.

I have to ask... your signature says you have T39s. Are you planning a switch? If yes, may I ask why?
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

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daveode
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Re: Mixing Speaker sizes

#5 Post by daveode » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:12 pm

So i take it that if i limit the cabs the same, the 18 sound loaded cabs won't be at the same volume?

Yup, planning to switch. 3 reasons,
1. I want to stack my OT12's on the subs (i know this isn't ideal but thats what I have to do) and the T39's aren't tall or stable enough to do this. and laying them down and stacking them gets in the players face! lol! The 9" height will make a difference.
2. 45hz isn't low enough. ( I only use 2 cabs 80% of the time) there is a second band I run sound for and they use tracks. some of the tracks go 40 to 30hz. so the impact of those parts of the song sound lacking. also they do weddings with a DJ that goes through my system.
3. I think in my van (2012 Nissan NV500 high top) I can fit 4 T48's plus all the band gear better.

The reason I was thinking T48's is because I have a friend that wants to sell me his pair for cheap. Originally I was thinking about building 4 24" wide T30's loaded with 18 sound 12"s, because I already have those drivers. Would 4 24" wide T30's be just as loud as 2 28" wide T39's?

For me, 2 T39's work well on volume, I just need them to go lower.
David Odell

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4 - T39 28" wide (Lab12 12NLW9300)
4 - OT12 (Delta pro/NSD2005)

Disco-inferno
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Re: Mixing Speaker sizes

#6 Post by Disco-inferno » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:10 pm

The program material you're describing dictates t60's. 30Hz is below the high pass frequency a stack of 4 T48's need.

Besides that you seem to plan on splitting subs so effectively you would need to high pass those at 40Hz anyway.

Do you really need 30Hz? I very rarely highpass any lower then 45Hz with nothing really lacking. I play a lot of electronic house and 95% of the tracks have no real important content below that. I do couple to a wall or a corner anywhere I can and that really makes a difference. Makes life on the cabs a lot easier too because I need near no eq then to drop really low.

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Re: Mixing Speaker sizes

#7 Post by daveode » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:56 pm

I would consider a T60 if it was side firing like a T48. I would stand them up and put my top boxes on top of the T60's. Those things are just way too large to lay down at most venues I do. I'm not a DJ, I'm an AE for bands, so subs are front and center or to the L/R of the stage/floor. So I can just place them anywhere.

Do I need 30hz?
I built a friend a T30 loaded with a BP102 speaker 22" wide for a gift and just out of curiosity to how it sounds. I fired that thing up and gave it a listen. I never knew what I was missing!!! 45hz isn't enough for todays music... for a live band without modern tracks, sure! 45hz is plenty! but you are definitely missing bass below 45hz (heck even below 40hz!) for todays pop/dance music.

Just for example:
Tove Lo "Talking Body". chords are Em D G C.... "C" is the lowest bass note. That note is playing at 32.70hz. I never knew that note existed in that song with my T39's.
Justin Bieber "Where are U now" Chorus: Em G C D Am.... "D" is the lowest note. That note is being played at 36.71hz.
The Weeknd "The Hills" lowest note is "D".. again, 36.71hz.
Justin Bieber "Sorry" Lowest note is "F".. thats 43.65hz but you can definitely hear the synth bass octaves of that note in a T30 that are non existing in a T39.

These are just a few examples of todays music that goes well below 45hz. I attached a photo of the C note being played on talking body. This is the frequency range I am missing for my "Todays pop" band I mix. Maybe 25 years ago 45hz was acceptable for pop and rap, but not today.

I love the sound of the T30 but i'm not sure if 4 of them would be as loud as 2 T39's. Does anyone have experience with T30's compared to T39's? Mainly 4 T30's vs 2 T39's? They would be loaded with a 12" speaker.
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Talking Body C note
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Last edited by daveode on Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
David Odell

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4 - T39 28" wide (Lab12 12NLW9300)
4 - OT12 (Delta pro/NSD2005)

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daveode
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Re: Mixing Speaker sizes

#8 Post by daveode » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:59 pm

BTW, Thank you all for the responses!
David Odell

Sound tech for Love Seed Mama Jump
Sound tech for Kicking Sunrise
Sound tech in Dewey Beach DE and most of DE/NJ/PA.
Freelance Audio Tech
A1, A2 Tech, GT

4 - T39 28" wide (Lab12 12NLW9300)
4 - OT12 (Delta pro/NSD2005)

Grant Bunter
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Re: Mixing Speaker sizes

#9 Post by Grant Bunter » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:07 am

Mainly 4 T30's vs 2 T39's
Here's the rub on that.
Go to the SPL charts section, down to the T30 charts.

First thing you notice is a T39 beats output in a T30 from 38Hz and up.
Second thing you notice is, in a driver vs cab comparison, output has a differential of around -3dB in the T30 compared to the T39.

Build 4 x T30's and you make that deficit up, plus some.
You have to build 4 x T30's to allow a 30Hz HP anyway.
With a 24dB brick wall slope you will still get fundamental E string at 28Hz too.

Do you want to utilise your current drivers?
The 3012lf or lab 12 is going to be +6dB in maximum output compared to a BP102 or a Delta12LFA.
You might need to think 6 x (premium loaded) T30's to be better output wise than 4 x T39's...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

himhimself
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Re: Mixing Speaker sizes

#10 Post by himhimself » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:18 am

Thanks for the info on some current tunes, daveode. I think it was the "We Don't Talk Anymore" track (Charlie Puth?) that clued me in to a "missing low note" when I played it on a decent car stereo. Seems more and more standard pop is reaching down low - not constant sub-30hz EDM content- but enough that it's noticeable when it's not there. Enough to put me back on the T30 path...

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Re: Mixing Speaker sizes

#11 Post by daveode » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:01 pm

Grant Bunter wrote:
Mainly 4 T30's vs 2 T39's
Build 4 x T30's and you make that deficit up, plus some.
You have to build 4 x T30's to allow a 30Hz HP anyway.
With a 24dB brick wall slope you will still get fundamental E string at 28Hz too.

Thanks Grant! This is what I wasn't sure about!

Do you want to utilise your current drivers?
The 3012lf or lab 12 is going to be +6dB in maximum output compared to a BP102 or a Delta12LFA.
You might need to think 6 x (premium loaded) T30's to be better output wise than 4 x T39's...

I plan on using 2 of my existing 12NLW9300 and buying 2 more. I will save my Lab12's for another project.
30"x30"x24" is manageable for me as i can stack 2 of these per side with 2 OT12's on top no problem in almost all places, because it will actually take up about same room as my current setup (1 T39 and 1 EV T252 per side). I will eventually build 4 more T30's for a total of 8, and more OT12's.
David Odell

Sound tech for Love Seed Mama Jump
Sound tech for Kicking Sunrise
Sound tech in Dewey Beach DE and most of DE/NJ/PA.
Freelance Audio Tech
A1, A2 Tech, GT

4 - T39 28" wide (Lab12 12NLW9300)
4 - OT12 (Delta pro/NSD2005)

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