La Scala + TT Placement Options

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doc
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La Scala + TT Placement Options

#1 Post by doc » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:27 pm

I've finally ordered my "dream" speakers in some Klipsch La Scalas and am now considering the addition of a sub. Here's the room:
IMG_0656.jpg
Until they arrive you'll have to just imagine the La Scalas in each corner, toed in toward the listener, then the components on a low console of some sort in the center.

Given that, I'm trying to determine what to run subwoofer wise while keeping the room uncluttered and symmetrical. Would the design allow for two Table Tubas sized to match the La Scala footprint (24.25” W x 25.25” D) placed in corners with the La Scalas on top of them? I've purchased the design but I'm not up to speed enough yet to understand if these dimensions would work, nor how tall the TT box would need to be, as having the La Scalas up too high above ear level would not be ideal for listening.

Grant Bunter
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Re: La Scala + TT Placement Options

#2 Post by Grant Bunter » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:58 pm

Generally, the worst place to put subs is under mains on either side.

The best place will be determined by the subwoofer crawl. If 2 subs are necessary to address room modes/nodes, often enough, their final placement will be on opposing walls.

Bill’s designs will have a fixed size for the sides, and after that, only width is a variable.

Hope this helps...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Rich4349
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Re: La Scala + TT Placement Options

#3 Post by Rich4349 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:34 pm

If those are kneewalls, depending on where the subcrawl results lie, an option for tidiness is cutting and finishing a hole in the drywall, then locating the mouth of the sub up against the new hole in the wall, firing into the room. Acoustically silent speaker mesh covering the opening can keep transients (pets and children, that is!) at bay.
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

doc
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Re: La Scala + TT Placement Options

#4 Post by doc » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:11 pm

Grant Bunter wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:58 pm
Generally, the worst place to put subs is under mains on either side.
I see. Just confusing as I've read the best place is typically the corners, but apparently it's now also the worst place because it's under the mains.

SethRocksYou
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Re: La Scala + TT Placement Options

#5 Post by SethRocksYou » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:10 pm

doc wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:11 pm
Grant Bunter wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:58 pm
Generally, the worst place to put subs is under mains on either side.
I see. Just confusing as I've read the best place is typically the corners, but apparently it's now also the worst place because it's under the mains.
I have set up our rehearsal rig in a larger room of roughly the same shape. And indeed the corner was the best. We only used one sub and one particular corner offered the best overall results. It did have nulls throughout the room, but luckily enough none of them effected the positions the rehearsing performers were in and the bass was especially hot in the opposite corner. Again, a lucky happenstance because that's where the bass player stood.

Anyway, you'll just have to try different locations out that work with your furniture placement and room design and see what works best... Choosing the best compromise of what placement is realistic given your aesthetic needs and actual performance in the space. You might luck out and the corners produce an acceptable result.

But, as Grant mentioned, the sub crawl is the quickest way I'm aware of to get a good idea where the sub/s should be placed. Especially if sound quality is the #1 priority of the space and everything else in the room is secondary.

Congrats on your new purchase! That's awesome :thumbsup:
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One 16" T39, 3012LF loaded
20" Tall AutoTuba loaded with 2 8" MCM 55-2421
8½" TruckTuba loaded with 2 8" MCM 55-2421

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Re: La Scala + TT Placement Options

#6 Post by Grant Bunter » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:14 pm

doc wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:11 pm
Grant Bunter wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:58 pm
Generally, the worst place to put subs is under mains on either side.
I see. Just confusing as I've read the best place is typically the corners, but apparently it's now also the worst place because it's under the mains.
Corners the best? Well, yes, in terms of adding +12dB output for free. But using two corners on one wall (which is what happens with subs under mains in a typical LR setup) is not so good because it will probably cause frequency cancellations in the sub band pass.
A wall is next best to corners, with a free output increase of +6dB. As I said earlier, often two opposing walls is often best for evening response/addressing room modes.

You're reading, that's good. Here's some other things you should know:

Subs do not need to be run in stereo. There is no content in the sub band pass that aids in detecting L and R. So run subs in mono.
It's possible, but perhaps not probable, that you might get what you want with one sub.

The best place to put a sub, is often not the best place for aesthetics.

Things one might do for HT or home HiFi are the only such place you would do such things. If it was a very large room, or outdoors, things would be different again.

Read your plans until you know them by rote. Still refer to them constantly when building. Follow the plans to the letter.
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: La Scala + TT Placement Options

#7 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:54 pm

Corner placement tends to be best, but you'll usually get a better result when one of those corners is in the front of the room and the other is in the back.

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Tom Smit
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Re: La Scala + TT Placement Options

#8 Post by Tom Smit » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:26 pm

Hi doc! Welcome to the forum!
I know that you posted in another thread asking about the THTLP, and, I think that would be the preferred sub considering that you have LaScalas. The TT only offers a half octave below what the LaScalas can do. As Rich4349 proposed, perhaps make a hole in a wall for the sub to breathe through (after doing the subwoofer crawl.)
TomS

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