table tuba compatability

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resko1
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table tuba compatability

#1 Post by resko1 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:29 pm

So i still havent finished my tt yet as i havent found the drivers i want to use. Its been 3 years now so id like to get this finished and operational.
Screenshot_2018-03-13-19-45-41.png
Screenshot_2018-03-10-12-00-45.png
These are tsp's for the two different drivers im considering. The first is a tc sounds built driver that was oem'd for sunfire audio in gc8 but was rejected due to space constraints. It was dubbed the "orphan 8" is is a favorite of mine to play with.

The other is the Image Dynamics id8.

Can you guys tell me if either would be a good candidate?
Ive been racking my brain over this in what i want to use. I have the tc sounds drivers already and would love to use them here. BL is high on these and the cone is very thick and rigid making it a good visual canidate.

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Jason Stromberg
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Re: table tuba compatability

#2 Post by Jason Stromberg » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:40 pm

If i was to spend money on a higher priced driver it would be a 10" unless cabinet width needs to be slim.

resko1
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Re: table tuba compatability

#3 Post by resko1 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:03 pm

Jason Stromberg wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:40 pm
If i was to spend money on a higher priced driver it would be a 10" unless cabinet width needs to be slim.
The plan is to use dual 8's. But im not opposed to a single 10 either.
Im just looking for something that has a higher xmax and power handling then the recommended drivers.
I am very impartial to thilo's work and have been a fan of his drivers and technology for over a decade. Unfortunately a LMS driver is not idealy suitable with horn due to high qts.

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Tom Smit
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Re: table tuba compatability

#4 Post by Tom Smit » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:40 pm

The Image Dynamics id8 may work, it is within the specs needed, and seems to be shallow enough. The Orphan 8 looks be outside of specs, mainly the Vas, and total depth looks to be more than 6".
TomS

resko1
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Re: table tuba compatability

#5 Post by resko1 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:05 am

The vas on the orphan specs are wrong. Its actually 15.031. Was misprinted when it was copied over.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: table tuba compatability

#6 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:07 am

If the specs are good the specs are good. I wouldn't get hung up on gigantic xmax or using dual drivers. That can be beneficial in a direct radiator, but not all that much in a horn.

resko1
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Re: table tuba compatability

#7 Post by resko1 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:15 am

What do you think is an acceptable range Bill?
Ive been looking for drivers that are dead on or just slightly deviated from original. Also something with high ebp also.

Or maybe, what is the most critical tsp for the enclosure? I would assume fs due to the impedance exchange a horn is made for. I may be wrong though.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: table tuba compatability

#8 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:23 am

From the plans: Preferred T/S specs are fs 28 to 40Hz, Qts .30 to .50, Vas 15 to 45L, xmax 8mm or more. Anything within that range will work. As for Fs, that's one of the least important specs in a horn. When it comes to horns forget everything you thought you knew about speakers, they are that different.

resko1
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Re: table tuba compatability

#9 Post by resko1 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:33 pm

Ok. Maybe a condensed understanding would help. From what ive read so far, a horn is basically a 1/4 wave that matches impedance of the driver to the surrounding room by loading the soundwave into the throat, and thus unloading it from the mouth into the desired area?
Am i correct so far?

Idea driver would be one thats compliant and has a lower total q value (qts), good motor strength or BL product, and a cone that can handle the compression loading of the horn.

Grant Bunter
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Re: table tuba compatability

#10 Post by Grant Bunter » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:37 am

resko1 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:33 pm
Ok. Maybe a condensed understanding would help. From what ive read so far, a horn is basically a 1/4 wave that matches impedance of the driver to the surrounding room by loading the soundwave into the throat, and thus unloading it from the mouth into the desired area?
Am i correct so far?

Idea driver would be one thats compliant and has a lower total q value (qts), good motor strength or BL product, and a cone that can handle the compression loading of the horn.
This may well turn out to be the quasi scientific explanation (in full or in part), or not.
IMHO, the best way to think of a horn is to think of a trumpet. A small brrrt brrt at the mouthpiece turns into the amazingly loud note at the other end.
So, in a horn cab, using a smaller, lower powered driver to produce a much louder sound with less amp power at the mouth.

I'm kinda gobsmacked that looking for a suitable driver hasn't happened for you in three years.
Sometimes the enemy of good is better.
Sheesh man, get a recommended driver, try to blow it up while you still search.
Get that cab done....
Built:
DR 250: x 2 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" BP102 , 2 x 28" 3012lf.
WH8: x 3 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

resko1
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Re: table tuba compatability

#11 Post by resko1 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:55 pm

I think you may be correct grant. Maybe just start with the recommended driver. Ive been so hung up and finding something that fits the parameter, but yet has the most xmax and power handling. I will be trying to fill a large room. Approx 32ft x 30ft. Im just afraid of being disappointed by a single 8.
Them after watching videos online of guys ising the tt with dual 8" infinitys and jbl and having excellent results began my quest.

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Jason Stromberg
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Re: table tuba compatability

#12 Post by Jason Stromberg » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:59 pm

If you like it loud i recommend the 10" in the plans but i guess it depends on the mains and volume you use.

The single 8 won't disappoint but more headroom is always welcome in my opinion.

resko1
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Re: table tuba compatability

#13 Post by resko1 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:33 pm

Exactly jason.
My current subwoofer for 7 years now is a simple 1.8cuft box tuned to 28hz with a soundsplinter rl-i8. Downfiring driver with rear port about 10" from the wall. It has done me very well and has gobs of output. But ive noticed it is very directional. Especially now that its a bigger room since we have moved. Thats why im revisiting the tt in hopes it will fill the room accurately and not be as phase dependant.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: table tuba compatability

#14 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:08 pm

resko1 wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:33 pm
But ive noticed it is very directional.
The only output that can possibly be directional is above bandwidth harmonics. Below 100Hz a speaker less than ten feet across cannot be directional. You may have room modes causing null zones. The cure for that is multiple subs.

resko1
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Re: table tuba compatability

#15 Post by resko1 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:43 pm

After speaking with a buddy for a bit, i believe i found the driver i want to use.

Sundown E10 V3 D2
Screenshot_2018-03-15-18-22-35.png
The parameters look to be very on par. Ebp shows optimization for ported enclosure, motor strength is excellent, and xmax is respectable. I also watched a video from the company where they abused the driver freeair on almost twice its rated power. Although it did fail, it took quite a beating before it did. My concern all along has been havig a driver capable of withstanding a beating as for some reason i feel without the back pressure of a conventional enclosure, a note below tuning would unload the driver very quickly and forcefully.

At 120 a piece, im going to give this a go with a single 10". Ill be recycling my bash 500s out my current enclosure for the time being. I will have to change the resistors to raise the high pass filter but i think it will pair up well.

Wish me luck! Ill report back once i have it finished up in a few weeks.

Thanks everyone for your help.

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