Upgrade Titan 48

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Padde298
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#16 Post by Padde298 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:11 am

I have always been impressed with the looks of Jamaican Sound Systems (if that's the proper name for this type of speaker stacking), but the technology behind them seems old fashioned and out dated.
They remind me of designs from the 80's. To me there is no doubt that when focusing on the music these systems should convey, one should at least try to get the low end right! This is surely done with the T48!
But to miss the oppotunity to get a system which can be scaled to fit different venues and jobs, not to speak of getting the best possible, coherent sound, because of a wish of a certain look, makes no sense (to me). Not even when calling up on cultural heritage!
Should I make a system to fulfill the demands of Dub Step, Reggae and other Jamaican inspired types of sound, I would make a heap of T48/T60 and twice as many OTop 12 J's. Simple, scalable and so effective that you'll smile every time you set it up, no matter what size of job you have...
Bill may be a bit harsh in his statement, but he is honest! I would not have my "name" on anything which deliberately is aiming for something which is SO far from optimal.
More bass, more bass! :chainsaw: :chainsaw:

2 x TAT

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Tom Smit
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#17 Post by Tom Smit » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:18 am

@Jony_850, would you consider building, and only using, the OmniTop15 cabinet? It is an easy build, and may be all that you need. This cab, combined with the T48, would make a 3-way system that would outdo many systems in Jamaica and be very clean sounding at the same time.

If it is looks that you are after, you could also build boxes and install speakers that are blown. Have this setup, but with the OTop15 on the outside of the stack. :)
TomS

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#18 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:04 am

Good engineering knows no cultural boundaries. BTW, I've worked with quite a few reggae acts, including The Wailers. They haven't used a cluster array on tour for about 20 years.

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BrentEvans
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#19 Post by BrentEvans » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:06 am

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:04 am
Good engineering knows no cultural boundaries.
So does :bash: . Just sayin.
99% of the time, things that aren't already being done aren't being done because they don't work. The other 1% is split evenly between fools and geniuses.

Rich4349
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#20 Post by Rich4349 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:41 pm

Jony_850 wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:55 pm
The father of a friend is electroacoustic engineer, he tell us about that issues, but he respect us and the culture we like...
That feeling when two experienced, though unrelated, people give you the same advice... 8)
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

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eshadeol
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#21 Post by eshadeol » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:43 pm

Hey there, I'm NOT ADVOCATING your build, but you are definitely going to do it anyway, so, how about crossing over your high cut off points sooner and your low pass slopes later.

So your 90hz to 180hz boxes would enter in at 110hz, your subwoofer would exit at 75hz instead of 90hz , etcetera for the rest of the boxes and frequency ranges, but do this more so in the baby crying frequency, say 2500hz 1700hz area your slopes could be farther apart there. 24db or more per octave 48db if that's available.
Defy the vortex -of mediocre-second rate bass- produced by mongrels- devoid of taste!
A beautiful lyric from : Maggotron "In Search of a Funky Khan"
4 T60 27" lab15,Omni TB 2 BP102,AutoTubaMCM 10"

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eshadeol
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#22 Post by eshadeol » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:03 pm

I like the tabs for frequency rangesjust go lower and higher, although not a professional, I'm thinking comb filtering would be reduced , but not eliminated. Again, specialist I'm not.
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Defy the vortex -of mediocre-second rate bass- produced by mongrels- devoid of taste!
A beautiful lyric from : Maggotron "In Search of a Funky Khan"
4 T60 27" lab15,Omni TB 2 BP102,AutoTubaMCM 10"

88h88
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#23 Post by 88h88 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:45 am

I did a night in a venue once, went down one night to check it out before the event and there was a reggae sound system on. There were 12 scoop subs, a whole array of mid cabs, some highs and then the old favourite super tweeters 8ft in the air firing straight ahead into the wall at the back of the room.

It had bags of bottom end and ear-shredding highs. What amuses me about soundsystems is the requirement to always have a guy on the desk tweaking things constantly. At one point the DJ dropped something with a boat load of bass and the engineer panicked and wound back the bass before his system blew up. I went in the week after, set up my 2 sub, 2 top system to the room and just left it running all night with DJs abusing it... It sounded a whole load better.

There's some weird outdated practices involved with soundsystem culture, mostly the look but if I were doing it I'd just make some fake cabs and run Bill's stuff in the stack 2-way. Probably a whole stack of T48s with some fake mids and then a pile of DR250s on top, fake supertweeters optional.
4xOT12s, 2xT39s@22", TTLS@18", 2xT60@18"

Jony_850
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#24 Post by Jony_850 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:03 am

I've been studying a lot on the subject. I am not an acoustic engineer nor do I dedicate myself to this. It is a hobby. But little by little we are learning and we do not want to offend anyone. Bill, I'm sorry that your Titan 48 is under a lot of speakers.
Nor do I defend the reggae sound systen for its sound system, I see many of the mistakes made.
Let's start again from 0, what if it will not change is the way to stack the speakers, and it's simple, because we do not have the means to hang them.
The question was simple, when we did the Titan 48 we were not aware of how they worked. But the first sentence on the page about mythology and the subs impact us.
The problem seeing the graphics well the titan spl low much below 60hz for us would have been better a tuba, that's what we lacked, so the question of how to get more sound, and the option of more boxes not It's solution, I do not have a truck.
We had a meeting with a great electroacoustic engineer, who has been head of development for many years of one of the great audio brands, professional, who has designed the acoustics of great theaters and important events. We reveal your data for privacy. He gave us lessons, telling us many of the things that you have exposed. example better to use 3 ways .... etc. The first asked us to see what we had. And the second we start from 0, sell everything and redo everything.

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#25 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:07 am

Jony_850 wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:03 am
The problem seeing the graphics well the titan spl low much below 60hz for us would have been better a tuba.
That's not true, the T48 is exactly the right sub for reggae. To know why you'd have to take an RTA of a top touring reggae band, playing through a no holds barred million dollar plus system, recorded at the FOH console, so that it shows exactly what the mixing engineer heard. The chances of your ever having the opportunity to do so are very small. In my line of work they're pretty good. This is the RTA I took of The Wailers in the FOH, where I stood next to Dennis Thompson.

Image

Note that the SPL drops like a stone below 60Hz. The content below 40Hz is ambient noise, from the foot traffic, vendors and generators in the 8,000 seat venue where I took this.

Jony_850
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#26 Post by Jony_850 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:09 pm

Where you put the high corner with this box? Do you slope with the next way?

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#27 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:22 am

Jony_850 wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:09 pm
Where you put the high corner with this box? Do you slope with the next way?
I don't understand the question.

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Tom Smit
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#28 Post by Tom Smit » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:27 pm

I'm not sure but, I think he is asking where to put the hi-pass, and at what slope (db/octave) to the next cab, perhaps the mids.
TomS

Jony_850
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#29 Post by Jony_850 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:15 pm

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:22 am
[quote=Jony_850 post_id=273515 time=<a href="tel:1517684984">1517684984</a> user_id=9181]
Where you put the high corner with this box? Do you slope with the next way?
I don't understand the question.
[/quote]

Sorry, by moment the we go to use 3 way, 4 titan 48 and 4 das mi215.
how would you adjust the crossover?

For the future we’ll fly the speakers

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Upgrade Titan 48

#30 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:20 pm

Jony_850 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:15 pm
Sorry, by moment the we go to use 3 way, 4 titan 48 and 4 das mi215.
how would you adjust the crossover?
Since those mains are overkill I'd cross them at 80Hz. Speakers with appropriate response for use with subs I'd cross higher, say 100Hz. Using four fifteens for the subs and eight fifteens for the mains is backwards.
For the future we’ll fly the speakers
The right way to place those mains is two per side, one above the other, the top speaker upside down, which puts the HF horns as close as possible to each other. The HF horn of the lowermost speaker should be just above the heads of the audience. You don't need to fly them to do that. The subs of course should be placed according to the rules of subwoofer placement. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=398

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