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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:05 am 
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How rusty is your German?

http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/304 ... -20-MK-III

http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/304 ... -dokumente

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:52 am 
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Location: Hartford, CT, US
The plate amp they're using in the MILLY and MARLIS is 400W continuous sine wave, 800W peak.
So it's 40 Volts into 4 Ohms * 10 Amps continuous.
And 56 Volts into 4 Ohms * 14 Amps peak.

I understand, for those who already have invested in speakers built with connectors for your external amp rack, you probably wouldn't be interested.

So the question is for new builders of these horn cabinets:

1. How much do you want to pay for a pro sub plate amp of this power - 400 W continuous 800 W peak? How many would you want?

2. How much do you want to pay for a 2-channel amp for biamped tops - say 200 W midbass continuous (40 V into 8 ohm), 100-200 W tweeters continuous ( 28 V to 40 V into 8 ohm ) ? How many would you want?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:16 pm 
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Posts: 103
Location: The Neterlands / Holland
Rich4349 wrote:


http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/daten ... _fr_nl.pdf

page 20 is English.

Most interesting part: page 16 tech specs.

Operating voltage ...................................................................... 220 - 240 V/50 - 60 Hz
Fuse ............................................................................................ T3,15AL/250 V (5 x 20 mm)
Input impedance ........................................................................ 5.7 kOhm (XLR)/12 kOhm (Cinch)
Input sensitivity .......................................................................... 380 mV (XLR)/650 mV (Cinch)
Output power max. (System) .................................................... 800 W
Output power RMS (System) .................................................... 400 W
Frequency range ........................................................................ 35 - 130 Hz (SUB)/130 - 20000 Hz (SAT)
Sound pressure (system) .......................................................... max. 122 dB
Subwoofer .................................................................................. 38 cm (15")
Satellites ..................................................................................... 200 mm (8") bass speakers with horn tweeter
Dimensions (SUB) ..................................................................... 450 x 556 x 600 mm
Dimensions (SAT) ..................................................................... 280 x 415 x 240 mm

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:22 pm 
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Location: Hartford, CT, US
Anyone?
For new boxes you're building, how much would you want to pay for a Pro Class D plate amp, with XLR balanced input, able to output :
* 56 Volt into 8 Ohm at 7 Amp (400 W) continuous,
* 80 Volt into 8 Ohm at 10 Amp ( 800 W ) short-term peak ?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:47 pm 
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Think wrote:
http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/304 ... -20-MK-III
Operating voltage ...................................................................... 220 - 240 V/50 - 60 Hz
NFG for the USA.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:13 pm 
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Posts: 5662
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
chris_c_ wrote:
Has anyone seen or got any idea where one might be able to look for a plate amp like this:

* Low Cost
* Class D topology
* Plate Amp 400 - 800W
* Voltage Limiter DSP
* XLR/ 1/4 combo ins
* World SMPS power supply 240/120V AC

For use on subs and tops.

1. Sub version should drive a single or dual 12 @ 8 ohm pro sub driver such as Lab 12. DSP limit to any voltage in range.

2. Top version should DSP to limit voltage and crossover the input then biamp drive a pro 12 bass/mid driver plus peizo array or dual compression horns as in the DR280 etc.

I see 700W plate amps, low cost, class D, yet they're lacking pro balanced inputs, power supply, and simple cheap DSP voltage limiter/crossover, probably due to lack of organized demand.



Have you found any yet that match the criteria you are looking for (as stated above)?
If so, what is the pricing?

_________________
Built:
2 x DR 250 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
4 x 20" BP102 T39's, 2 x 28" 3012lf loaded underway.
3 x WH8 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:48 pm
Posts: 192
Location: Hartford, CT, US
Grant Bunter wrote:
chris_c_ wrote:
Has anyone seen or got any idea where one might be able to look for a plate amp like this:

* Low Cost
* Class D topology
* Plate Amp 400 - 800W
* Voltage Limiter DSP
* XLR/ 1/4 combo ins
* World SMPS power supply 240/120V AC

For use on subs and tops.

1. Sub version should drive a single or dual 12 @ 8 ohm pro sub driver such as Lab 12. DSP limit to any voltage in range.

2. Top version should DSP to limit voltage and crossover the input then biamp drive a pro 12 bass/mid driver plus peizo array or dual compression horns as in the DR280 etc.

I see 700W plate amps, low cost, class D, yet they're lacking pro balanced inputs, power supply, and simple cheap DSP voltage limiter/crossover, probably due to lack of organized demand.



Have you found any yet that match the criteria you are looking for (as stated above)?
If so, what is the pricing?


Hi Grant,

First I'd need to get input from you and all those interested here, regarding:
a) cost range you want to pay per amp,
b) how many you'd want at first, and the total quantity you'd eventually want.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:26 am 
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Posts: 5662
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
chris_c_ wrote:
Grant Bunter wrote:
chris_c_ wrote:
Has anyone seen or got any idea where one might be able to look for a plate amp like this:

* Low Cost
* Class D topology
* Plate Amp 400 - 800W
* Voltage Limiter DSP
* XLR/ 1/4 combo ins
* World SMPS power supply 240/120V AC

For use on subs and tops.

1. Sub version should drive a single or dual 12 @ 8 ohm pro sub driver such as Lab 12. DSP limit to any voltage in range.

2. Top version should DSP to limit voltage and crossover the input then biamp drive a pro 12 bass/mid driver plus peizo array or dual compression horns as in the DR280 etc.

I see 700W plate amps, low cost, class D, yet they're lacking pro balanced inputs, power supply, and simple cheap DSP voltage limiter/crossover, probably due to lack of organized demand.



Have you found any yet that match the criteria you are looking for (as stated above)?
If so, what is the pricing?


Hi Grant,

First I'd need to get input from you and all those interested here, regarding:
a) cost range you want to pay per amp,
b) how many you'd want at first, and the total quantity you'd eventually want.


In one of my responses to your thread I said:
Grant Bunter wrote:
I got a bit intrigued about your idea. Not because I want to do it, just because of what it would cost.
So I did some searching.


Seems to me what you said in your first post isn't so much about searching for and finding such units already in production, but more a retail opportunity to get some made.

You could probably find units with the right power specs already in production.
And use a driverack for the DSP...

_________________
Built:
2 x DR 250 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
4 x 20" BP102 T39's, 2 x 28" 3012lf loaded underway.
3 x WH8 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:48 pm
Posts: 192
Location: Hartford, CT, US
Grant, it would be awesome to find these pro plate amps pre-made AND affordable, yet, I've searched all over and cannot find any pre made, affordable, pro XLR input plate amps, 400 Watt continuous, 800 Watt peak, into 8 Ohms. If you, or anyone, find any, please post a link!

If we, as a community of DIY audio sound system pros, would have enough demand to guarantee we'll take 1000 pro plate amps between all of us, then we can make this pro plate amp happen to our specs, at an affordable cost. Disclaimer, presumably pro plate amps would be for new built cabs, since if you have existing cabs up and running with amp rack, you probably would keep that setup as-is. Not trying to get anyone to ditch their existing and perfectly working beloved external amp racks. Just want to provide a competitive option for those who want to be lean and mean and not be forced to have an external amp rack when they don't want to have one.

This pro plate amp opportunity could be the perfect new cab design opportunity for BF, to design a new pro style LINE ARRAY CAB - short, wide, stackable with the special external steel hardware, with the tweeters on wavefront horns! Competitive with the big guys and their sexy 10 foot tall line arrays with six or eight cabs stacking in a 10 foot tall line. For all of us to use the pro plate amps on the back of! Performing artists, and venues, love having that long controlled coverage only a line array can provide, due to the laws of physics!

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:05 pm 
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chris_c_ wrote:
This pro plate amp opportunity could be the perfect new cab design opportunity for BF, to design a new pro style LINE ARRAY CAB - short, wide, stackable with the special external steel hardware, with the tweeters on wavefront horns! Competitive with the big guys
We already have that in the DR series. Adding plate amps is just a matter of adding an extension on the back of the cab to house it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:27 am 
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Posts: 192
Location: Hartford, CT, US
Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
chris_c_ wrote:
This pro plate amp opportunity could be the perfect new cab design opportunity for BF, to design a new pro style LINE ARRAY CAB - short, wide, stackable with the special external steel hardware, with the tweeters on wavefront horns! Competitive with the big guys
We already have that in the DR series. Adding plate amps is just a matter of adding an extension on the back of the cab to house it.

OK. Would there be no value in making a 14 inch tall, 32 inch wide, "compact line array" cab design? Similar to offerings by RCF, JBL, Meyer, etc.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:18 am 
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chris_c_ wrote:
Would there be no value in making a 14 inch tall, 32 inch wide, "compact line array" cab design? Similar to offerings by RCF, JBL, Meyer, etc.
None. They make them low and wide because they use dual woofers. They use dual woofers because being low sensitivity direct radiators they have to. The wider the radiating plane the narrower the dispersion. The DRs are as narrow as they are because narrow is better.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:34 am 
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Location: Hartford, CT, US
Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
chris_c_ wrote:
Would there be no value in making a 14 inch tall, 32 inch wide, "compact line array" cab design? Similar to offerings by RCF, JBL, Meyer, etc.
None. They make them low and wide because they use dual woofers. They use dual woofers because being low sensitivity direct radiators they have to. The wider the radiating plane the narrower the dispersion. The DRs are as narrow as they are because narrow is better.

OK. I've seen a design for a compact line array box which use folded horns on the midbass and mids - if I remember right. The box was designed to cover 80 or 100 Hz up to 20 kHz. It was short, wide, and deep, 3.5 foot horn path to handle the 80 Hz low frequency. Are these totally pointless?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:04 am 
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I would have to see the design details to comment. However, the path of the DR280 is 3 feet.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:32 pm 
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Posts: 5662
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
Not only is there the DR series, but also the J array Otop series that are line array capable.
IMHO there's no need for another series.

When it comes to adding metal to cabs to fly, both the metal for the cabs and the structure to hold it up in the air are on your dime, and is your responsibility and risk. It also needs to be signed off for that purpose wherever you are in the world, before you can use it.
Bill's designs are not inherently designed to be flown, he is a sound engineer and designer, not any other sort of engineer.
When it comes to commercially prepared rigging systems, on commercial cabs that already have hardware in place, it is still up to you to have the system signed off before use.

Adding this capability to a new design would involve a ?structural engineer presumably. That would significantly add to plan cost at a minimum. One issue would be suitability to applicable laws on a global basis.

If you really want a specific design, talk to Bill about it. You might not like what he asks for in remuneration though...

_________________
Built:
2 x DR 250 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
4 x 20" BP102 T39's, 2 x 28" 3012lf loaded underway.
3 x WH8 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...


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