Old mixer thoughts

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Rich4349
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Old mixer thoughts

#1 Post by Rich4349 »

Over the past couple of years I've accumulated gear thinking that I would be any part of the entertainment chain, from DJ to sound guy. I've found I'm probably not the "wicky-wicky" kind of DJ, AFTER I bought a mixer and cdj set up. In a couple months I'll have a chance to be "just" the sound guy, which is where I'm more comfortable. This upcoming gig will be for live sound, though, and I haven't yet taken the plunge into a multi-track mixer. But it dawned on me, I MIGHT be able to squeak by that night using the 4 channels of my Pioneer DJM-600. The manual says the 4 inputs can be used for NON-line level inputs; so mics are ok, as well as UN-amplified guitars (right?). I know 4 channels is bare bottom (possibly sub-bare bottom), but for just one gig (my first this year- it's just an expensive hobby so far), would this suffice? And most importantly, WORK? Would I need to split the mic's XLR output into stereo RCAs for the mixer's stereo inputs? I don't see why I would, unless the voltages might get halved?

http://www.pioneer.eu/uk/support/manual ... /page.html

Any further thoughts on this? I'd hate to invest another $xxx into another toy that becomes obsolete between gigs, and actually USING a piece of gear that's been sitting idle appeals to me a lot, too.
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

billkatz
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Re: Old mixer thoughts

#2 Post by billkatz »

The challenge will be that MICs (at least good ones, that use XLR connectors) are balanced. The phono inputs on your mixer are unbalanced - you'd at least need some sort of balun or transformer to convert from balanced (XLR) to RCA. It looks like you can get a bare-bones analog mixer with 4 or 5 mic preamps for about $100.
Built:
1 Omni-15 Tall Boy
2 DR250s
2 Titan 39s

Rich4349
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Location: Kankakee, IL

Re: Old mixer thoughts

#3 Post by Rich4349 »

I thought the problem came when you try to go from unbalanced to balanced? (But if you answered my question at all then you know far more than I do.)
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Old mixer thoughts

#4 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

billkatz wrote:The challenge will be that MICs (at least good ones, that use XLR connectors) are balanced. The phono inputs on your mixer are unbalanced.
That's only half of the issue. High impedance mics might have enough voltage output to use with that mixer, but I seriously doubt that low impedance mics would.

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Old mixer thoughts

#5 Post by Bruce Weldy »

If your definition of working is reasonably decent sound, then the answer is no.

That is the wrong piece of gear. Those rca inputs are not for mics - period.

As suggested, find a small 4-6 channel mixer - Yamaha has some great ones. At least you could get a decent vocal mix if you have some decent mics.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Grant Bunter
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Re: Old mixer thoughts

#6 Post by Grant Bunter »

I didn't bother reading your DJM manual.

My first thought was, "how can you send to monitors?"
I guess you could use a booth out, but it's really inadequate for live sound monitoring.

My second thought was putting some (eg) reverb on vocals and maybe guitar. Again, possibly achievable if the DJM has some on board FX, but not what any experienced performer might expect.

Honestly, if you want to make some forays into live sound, your first few gigs in that role will make or break the rest that follow (or don't).
And never forget that it's not just your reputation on the line when you do PA and mix.
People who have been working up their own reputation as performers will also suffer if you don't get it right. Not necessarily perfect, but right.

Just so you know, balanced leads allow longer cable runs, say between mike and XLR input, without introducing hum into the system, due to a number of factors.
Unbalanced leads, in comparison, need to remain short (I try to keep mine under 10 feet) because they allow hum to be introduced. Guitar leads are always unbalanced. So if you need to have a long run with acoustic guitar, you're best off putting the guitar into a DI, which has a balanced output.

My thought about your situation?
Assuming you don't have an FX rack and so on yet, dry hire a digital mixer (as each channel will have all the FX and routing and so on you require) for the gig.
In fact, dry hire one for a few days, and play with it until you know it inside out and don't struggle at all using it...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

David Raehn
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Re: Old mixer thoughts

#7 Post by David Raehn »

I keep one of these handy:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... nput-mixer

Once you outgrow it at FOH, you could use it for a smaller rig or a drum kit submix.
BFM rig:
6 OT12
4 T48
4 WH8
Other:
56 box Electrotec LabQ rig
Way too many cables
:noob:

NukePooch
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Re: Old mixer thoughts

#8 Post by NukePooch »

David Raehn wrote:I keep one of these handy:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... nput-mixer

Once you outgrow it at FOH, you could use it for a smaller rig or a drum kit submix.

I agree. I have an Allen & Heath ZED-10FX small mixer...it's still what I grab when I need to do 'background music with one announcement mic' types of events. If you get a small mixer now, and you stick with learning live sound, you can always find uses for another compact mixer.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... th-effects
Built:
4 Jack 112L- 3012HO, melded array
17.5 wide AutoTuba with Infinity 860w
6 Wedgehorn W6 w/ Panel Mount Piezos
2 T48 Slims (15" wide) with 3012LF
4 T48 Fattys (32" wide) with 3015LF

Rich4349
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Re: Old mixer thoughts

#9 Post by Rich4349 »

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. The venue owners have this to use:
http://www.toacanada.com/assets/files/MX-401.pdf

I know it's a dinosaur, but what do you guys think?
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

Rich4349
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:18 am
Location: Kankakee, IL

Re: Old mixer thoughts

#10 Post by Rich4349 »

I'm curious / apprehensive about this:

"Frequency Response
+0, -3dB 60Hz~20kHz ( i n p u t LEVEL at "5" position)"

and

"Input EQ
50Hz ±15dB Shelving"

Sounds to my uneducated self like 25-50 hz might be severely compromised??
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

Bruce Weldy
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Old mixer thoughts

#11 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Rich4349 wrote:Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. The venue owners have this to use:
http://www.toacanada.com/assets/files/MX-401.pdf

I know it's a dinosaur, but what do you guys think?

Program out jack to EQ in. EQ out to your processor or amp....

This will give you the mixer plus the graphic EQ....which you need with only two band EQ.

This is not the best solution as it's a powered mixer, but it will work.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Old mixer thoughts

#12 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Rich4349 wrote:I'm curious / apprehensive about this:

"Frequency Response
+0, -3dB 60Hz~20kHz ( i n p u t LEVEL at "5" position)"

and

"Input EQ
50Hz ±15dB Shelving"

Sounds to my uneducated self like 25-50 hz might be severely compromised??

Just regular old EQ......Don't turn it down and it won't be compromised. Oh, and what band will be putting out 25hz? Or, 30?

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

Grant Bunter
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
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Re: Old mixer thoughts

#13 Post by Grant Bunter »

I would give anything with TOA on the front panel a wide birth.
At least here in Australia, they must have done a great job marketing their gear, as it seems like it's everywhere in clubs as powered mixers as per your link, or as 70 or 100V distribution amps, but honestly, it's crap!

Give us a list of what you can throw in/have already, and lets see if we can come up with what else you need...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Rich4349
Posts: 855
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:18 am
Location: Kankakee, IL

Re: Old mixer thoughts

#14 Post by Rich4349 »

Bruce Weldy wrote:
Rich4349 wrote:I'm curious / apprehensive about this:

"Frequency Response
+0, -3dB 60Hz~20kHz ( i n p u t LEVEL at "5" position)"

and

"Input EQ
50Hz ±15dB Shelving"

Sounds to my uneducated self like 25-50 hz might be severely compromised??

Just regular old EQ......Don't turn it down and it won't be compromised. Oh, and what band will be putting out 25hz? Or, 30?
The band performs one night, so there's no worries there. The next night is an "electronic artist" (not sure exactly where in that spectrum they lie, but I KNOW what my t-60s are capable of, and I like it when they deliver! )
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

Rich4349
Posts: 855
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:18 am
Location: Kankakee, IL

Re: Old mixer thoughts

#15 Post by Rich4349 »

I checked out the affordable mixer links you guys posted. $200 is doable all day, but I'm the kind of gear head that would rather buy bigger and buy once. What's the next step or two up from those? More channels? more features? Higher quality components?I read some reviews on musician's friend to stick with Peavey or Mackie, but I'm sure every brand makes a few turds here and there. Any recommendations for something qualitatively better, say around 300?
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

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