Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

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Tom Smit
Posts: 7457
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#46 Post by Tom Smit »

Ooohhhh, yeaaahhhh, (said in my deepest voice). :clap:
TomS

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#47 Post by CoronaOperator »

:clap: :clap: :clap:
Don't forget to check your access panels for leaks at war volume
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

MA043HA
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:17 am
Location: Mass

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#48 Post by MA043HA »

MA043HA wrote:
J_Dunavin wrote:What amp and or external crossover are going with? Are you keeping the factory system or ripping it out?
Not sure what to do yet. On my old 2003 accord coupe I took it to Rich's Car Tunes in Watertown and they replaced the factory speakers with JL Audio all around. Left the factory HU driving them and no sub. That was a nice bump in sound quality as I recall but now I'd like to go further. I started reading on some of the car audio and Accord/Honda forums and watching YouTube. I've pretty much decided to keep the stock HU because if its integration with so many other functions. I could come up with the funds to do this in a big way or cheaply or somewhere in between.

:arrow: Install sub, crossover, amp, line level converter myself perhaps tapping into rear speaker wires. no sound deadening or factory speaker replacement.

:arrow: Have pro install sub, crossover, amp etc and additional work as budget decision allows:
sound deadening at various levels of thoroughness - doors, floor, roof
factory speaker replacement - front only vs. all.
amps to drive replacement speakers vs driven from stock HU
DSP to control and tune/unite this specific component combination for this specific car

Questions:

How much control can I have over this system while driving? I'd like to both have it tuned for preset optimization at various ambient sound levels (speeds) and have manual control at least over the sub level if not crossover and phase.

More basic - why is the auto tuba the best sub for a car closed off in the trunk as it will be (doesn't that muffle it?) versus treating the trunk as a back space for an IB sub?

With Rich's Car Tunes essentially defunkt where to go in the Boston area for great car audio?
I found the shop/guy I want to do this work. Matt at Luxury Details in Framingham MA seems head and shoulders above the other shops/guys I talked with. He knocked me star struck with his demo vehicle - his own Lambo Gallardo with a Kenwood/Focal system! Other places had no demo vehicles. Currently considering for install next week:

Kenwood 6703S HU
Dynamat Xtreme in doors, trunk rear deck and floor
Focal K2 2-way comp set
Focal FDP6.900U six channel amp
AT in trunk
remove factory fill speakers on rear deck leaving those holes open for bass to enter cabin
setup/eq/TA/tuning will be done with the HU and amp - no additional DSP currently planned

Any feedback from those of you with car audio experience and especially those that have integrated an AT welcome.

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#49 Post by CoronaOperator »

MA043HA wrote:
Kenwood 6703S HU
Dynamat Xtreme in doors, trunk rear deck and floor
Focal K2 2-way comp set
Focal FDP6.900U six channel amp
AT in trunk
remove factory fill speakers on rear deck leaving those holes open for bass to enter cabin
setup/eq/TA/tuning will be done with the HU and amp - no additional DSP currently planned

Any feedback from those of you with car audio experience and especially those that have integrated an AT welcome.
I wouldn't change a thing :D ! Hopefully your tweeters will be on the A-pillars and not down low in the doors, not that they can't sound good in the doors or kicks, but when a song pans full left or right your sound stage will collapse.

I'm not sure if your vehicle has steering wheel controls but if it does make sure you get them hooked up as well, very worth it. You might need an aftermarket dongle to interface with the Kenwood HU.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

MA043HA
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:17 am
Location: Mass

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#50 Post by MA043HA »

Thanks CO, yes, the tweeters will be up high in the stock position next to the A pillars. One thing I have some reluctance about is choosing speakers with limited audition. I have heard this same Focal set in his Lambo but wonder how Hertz, Rainbow, JL Audio, Morel, DynAudio and others might compare. I'm looking for a rich, smooth, yet detailed 3d soundstage. It doesn't have to be wicked loud :bash: and I don't want in-my-face aggressive :chainsaw:

I listen to a broad range of music including classical, prog rock (e.g. Steven Wilson, Tull, OSI), Celtic (e.g. Solas), singer/songwriters (e.g. James Taylor, Patti Griffin) and lots of jazz (e.g. Dave Weckl, Return To Forever)

Yeah my installer is on top of the steering wheel integration.

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#51 Post by CoronaOperator »

I run CDT comps with soft domes in my ride and am very happy. I have CDT aluminum and titanium tweets in boxes that I auditioned but never liked, I'll take a soft dome over metal any day. Inverted cone Aramid fiber sounds interesting, never heard them before however I have never heard anyone complain about Focals before.
...yet detailed 3d soundstage.
That is all in the tweeter aiming and system tuning. Done right you should get a solid image eye level about 3 feet in front of you.

Above about 3500 hz, our brain mostly uses relative volume level of the ears for localization. By placing the drivers tweeter facing the passenger and vice versa you are using the off-axis response of the tweeter to attenuate the volume of the nearer tweeter. Playing around with the aim here will get you close to having both tweeters the same volume level even though no balance levels have been made. For an even more solid image a separate 31 band left/right EQ really helps here. By playing band limited stereo pink noise (ie: 3 khz-3.2 khz) close your eyes then center the image by raising the band of the one side while simultaneously lowering the other (ex: +2 db to the right and -2 db to the left). By raising one side and lowering the other you don't change the overall tone. A 1 db change here will make a noticable shift left/right of the image. Continue for the rest of the bands.

Below about 3500 hz our ears mostly use the relative time difference between sources to locate the sound. This is why most installs used to use the kicks for the mids as the distance between your ears and both drivers are closest when mounted in the kicks. The kicks also give the best imaging in the mids for both driver/passenger at the same time. Nowadays DSP can do the time alignment difference although it can only correct for one seat while making the other seat worse.

Moral of the story: If you are using the focal x-overs so you can't time align every driver separately, time align to the mids and forget the tweeters. Use aiming to try and get the tweeters the same volume level, then adjust aim to taste.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#52 Post by CoronaOperator »

MA043HA wrote: Morel, DynAudio and others might compare.
Just thought I'd add so you don't wonder about the grass on the other side that Dyn's and Morel midbasses belong in home audio cabinets. They have very very very low sensitivity and have a hard time playing over road noise and were never designed to be placed free air in a door, they will pop without the air spring of a properly designed cabinet. Nice upper mids but that is it, no midbass whatsoever (in a car door) and if you are going for sound quality and imaging then you really want to go as close as you can to 80hz in your door, 100 hz at the absolute highest. They also don't handle winters very well, mine had numerous glue joint failures during the winter (spider and dust cap).
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

MA043HA
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:17 am
Location: Mass

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#53 Post by MA043HA »

Thanks again CO! When you talk about aiming tweeters I imagine motorized mounting pods where you can dial in the exact angles from the HU. Future tech I guess :idea:

I asked my installer about tweeter aiming last night as we were sitting in my car. He thought the stock tweeters in the sail panels were probably aimed to cross in front of driver or cross center. He has a laser tool he'll use to check it but said he would have to rework the sail panel mounts if we wanted a different aim.

Reading your suggestions I thought that the tweeter could just be aimed somehow in the stock mount. With shims?

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#54 Post by CoronaOperator »

I usually don't mount them right away and just leave extra wire so I can move them around and test different spots. I use these sometimes to set them up. Sometimes just extra strong double sided mounting tape to test out various spots. You should get a sense pretty quickly on what sounds like it'll work and what sounds like crap.
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

MA043HA
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:17 am
Location: Mass

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#55 Post by MA043HA »

Pretty hard core CO! Those camera mounts are cool. So are you saying that you zero in on where the tweeters sound best and then mod the car to accept them in that position? Got any pictures of one of your builds doing that? Makes my automatic use of the stock sail panel locations seem lame...

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#56 Post by CoronaOperator »

MA043HA wrote: So are you saying that you zero in on where the tweeters sound best and then mod the car to accept them in that position? Got any pictures of one of your builds doing that?
Exactly what I do, except I don't always get around to modding the sail panels, they looked pretty good where they were so I just left them like that. Here they are just mounted with double sided mounting tape (heavy duty stuff). I left some slack in the wires so I could try all the different angles and spots, once I found the sweet spots I just tucked the excess wires behind the A-pillar. Notice the extreme off axis of the drivers side tweeter (and passengers side tweeter is extreme off axis if you were sitting in the passenger seat, not so much off axis for the drivers seat):

Image
Image

Some other pics of my original build, a few changes since then:
http://s769.photobucket.com/user/corona ... /Car/story
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

Rich4349
Posts: 855
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:18 am
Location: Kankakee, IL

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#57 Post by Rich4349 »

So, Corona, how do those 9Ws sound?

:lol:
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!

CoronaOperator
Posts: 1648
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:07 pm
Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#58 Post by CoronaOperator »

Rich4349 wrote:So, Corona, how do those 9Ws sound?

:lol:
For some reason they sound better when I tilt my head all they way to the side :noob:
Built:
17" width 10" driver Autotuba
2 x 29" width dual Lab12 Tuba60
6 x DR250 2510/asd1001
In progress:
2 x DR250 2510/asd1001
For best results, point the loud end of the array towards the audience

MA043HA
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:17 am
Location: Mass

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#59 Post by MA043HA »

Visited the installer yesterday to take some shots "in process". He had dynamatted the whole trunk including the lid and put it back together. No use taking any photos of that. I did get these of Ms. AT's new playmates however...
LeftDoorDynamatResize.jpg
RightDoorDynamatResize.jpg

MA043HA
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:17 am
Location: Mass

Re: Auto Tuba for Accord Coupe

#60 Post by MA043HA »

Overdue update. Got my car back on saturday 11/19 after it had been worked on since the previous Monday. Matt helped me adjust the sub integration as I immediately wanted more midbass punch (kick drum in the chest). Running up the AT x-over too high however just made the bass localize in the rear. Initial impression - system sounds very loud and clear compared to factory. Soundstage is down in the dash despite tweeters at dash level. I'd like to tune to get soundstage on top of dash/hood. Matt says the HU unit distorts above 32-35 but seems plenty loud below that! Rear camera and steering wheel hands-free calling buttons not working through Metra system yet.

On Thanksgiving morning on the way to the family gathering I was out on the highway and playing with the iphone connected via usb not just bluetooth so I get CarPlay. Pretty cool. I had it pretty loud but not maxed out at one point and loudly said "Hey Siri" just to see if she would activate that way instead of touchscreen. Must have been an odd coincidence but as soon as I said that the sound got much quieter and very distorted. All inputs had same issue.

I turned it off and tried it later after thanksgiving family gathering. Nothing. Nada. No sound. Previously the amp had come on with a "thump". Now nothing. Checked the amp. Not lighting up in any way and stone cold. HU seems normal. Matt was open the next day after Thanksgiving. He advised checking the fuse at the battery and resetting if popped open. It was not popped. Brought it in. He confirmed that it was not coming on despite proper voltage from battery and power-on cable. He promised to get another amp from Focal when they open on Monday 11/28 for possible arrival when I could bring it in next - wednesday 11/30. He called me Monday to say that they won't just ship another one but want him to open it up and check the internal fuses.

Wednesday 11/30 - Almost 1 week with no working system in the car. Brought car in. Matt opened up amp and found all three fuses blown and a burned spot with burned smell. Unclear why this happened. I brought the original box with me in case it needed to go back and it is on its way with possible replacement arriving by tomorrow (Saturday) or by next Wednesday. I'm waiting on some questions to Matt including:

Can we know which channel(s) caused failure?

What sub high-pass frequency and slope did he have the AutoTuba set at?

Once the new one is installed is there some way to test if the amp is under stress?

I currently have a partially working system with an Alpine 2 channel amp going through the passive x-overs and no sub. He got the steering wheel hands-free voice/pickup/hangup controls working.

Matt said this is the first time he has seen a Focal amp fail like this...

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