OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
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- Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:32 am
- Location: ohio
Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
Great job so far. Just make sure you make them air tight and everything will be good to go.
That's one hell of a rig you are building. We should be able to hear it over here when you fire it up!
That's one hell of a rig you are building. We should be able to hear it over here when you fire it up!
Built
4-25" Lab12 loaded T39's
2-DR250's Melded array
2-DR250's Flat array
4-25" Lab12 loaded T39's
2-DR250's Melded array
2-DR250's Flat array
Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
My brother and I had to suspend the build to enable us do two shows covering over five thousand people each .We used this line array called Munson from a Chinese company. They were stinking loud outdoors. I hope to quickly complete rigs to match such performance. I believe a combination of 8 DR250 and 8 OTop12 j array will do the trick.
Built 2 x DR 250
Building 8 DR 250
Built 8 x OTOP 12 JARRAY
Built 2 TITAN 48
48ch & 32ch Sofware Audio Console
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=21253
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=22092
Building 8 DR 250
Built 8 x OTOP 12 JARRAY
Built 2 TITAN 48
48ch & 32ch Sofware Audio Console
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=21253
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=22092
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- Location: Newark Ohio
Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
Looking good! I wish we had 4 more t48s, maybe one day.
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- Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
- Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
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Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
Hi Cave,
If so, you may need to rethink this plan.
The different horn designs mean there will be phase issues between the two groups of cabs.
Leading to possible, even probable response nulls. This is generally not able to be fixed by EQ. And may not be fixable by altering phase by DSP.
You would need to explore this issue quite thoroughly...
Did you intend that these would be used together? ie at one show?I believe a combination of 8 DR250 and 8 OTop12 j array will do the trick.
If so, you may need to rethink this plan.
The different horn designs mean there will be phase issues between the two groups of cabs.
Leading to possible, even probable response nulls. This is generally not able to be fixed by EQ. And may not be fixable by altering phase by DSP.
You would need to explore this issue quite thoroughly...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...
Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
We will mostly be doing indoors but intend to run for medium and larger venues, four DR's per side and do delay lines with the OTops at about 25 metres. I believe this will work. What are your thoughts?Grant Bunter wrote:Hi Cave,
Did you intend that these would be used together? ie at one show?I believe a combination of 8 DR250 and 8 OTop12 j array will do the trick.
If so, you may need to rethink this plan.
The different horn designs mean there will be phase issues....
You would need to explore this issue quite thoroughly...
Built 2 x DR 250
Building 8 DR 250
Built 8 x OTOP 12 JARRAY
Built 2 TITAN 48
48ch & 32ch Sofware Audio Console
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=21253
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=22092
Building 8 DR 250
Built 8 x OTOP 12 JARRAY
Built 2 TITAN 48
48ch & 32ch Sofware Audio Console
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=21253
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=22092
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- Posts: 6915
- Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
- Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
- Contact:
Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
If the Munson cabs you used averaged 100dB in sensitivity 1W/1m, then 8 x DR250's (4 a side) would be the same as 16 of the Munson cabs.cave wrote: We will mostly be doing indoors but intend to run for medium and larger venues, four DR's per side and do delay lines with the OTops at about 25 metres. I believe this will work. What are your thoughts?
That should give you some idea of just how good the DR250's are. I would check the figures on the Munson cabs, just so you know and can compare.
Although a 25m distance (in terms of frequency band for mains/tops) should be far enough away not to be an issue, using Otops for delay stacks still means you are trying to reproduce the same frequencies, but in another location which isn't isolated, and with different cabs in terms of phase response. This may still present itself as a phase issue.
I've been trying to read up a lot on phase response lately.
There seems to be a lot of material about phase issues and recording, but not a lot on phase when reproducing music, either recorded or live, other than the usual checking the phase relationship between subs and tops.
While there are papers about adjusting phase with delay, phase shifting and other methods, they tend to be focused on a single frequency.
That's not music though.
So the amount of delay and degree of phase shift may work for one frequency, but not another or all the rest.
I guess the thing to do is try it all out well beforehand and see if it's an issue.
This would let you decide if the 8 x DR250's are in fact enough by themselves, or that using the Otops in delay stacks with DR's as the main stack is an issue in terms of phase...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...
- Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
Line arrays don't need remotes closer than 50 meters, and that's outdoors. Indoors they typically don't need them at all.cave wrote: We will mostly be doing indoors but intend to run for medium and larger venues, four DR's per side and do delay lines with the OTops at about 25 metres. I believe this will work. What are your thoughts?
Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
Assuming an area to be covered is the size of half a soccer field. 50meters square. Could the 8 DR 250 cover this area adequately?
Built 2 x DR 250
Building 8 DR 250
Built 8 x OTOP 12 JARRAY
Built 2 TITAN 48
48ch & 32ch Sofware Audio Console
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=21253
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=22092
Building 8 DR 250
Built 8 x OTOP 12 JARRAY
Built 2 TITAN 48
48ch & 32ch Sofware Audio Console
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=21253
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=22092
Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
2 stacks of 4, 10-15 meters apart, will more than do the job. If they must be closer together, toe them in to each other for wider dispersion.cave wrote:Assuming an area to be covered is the size of half a soccer field. 50meters square. Could the 8 DR 250 cover this area adequately?
Subs are going to be your nemesis on open ground. Bring and use a lot, I would want at least 16 drivers, no matter the design. 2 stacks of 8 drivers, at least 18m apart.
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice
Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
Grant Bunter wrote:If the Munson cabs you used averaged 100dB in sensitivity 1W/1m, then 8 x DR250's (4 a side) would be the same as 16 of the Munson cabs.cave wrote: We will mostly be doing indoors but intend to run for medium and larger venues, four DR's per side and do delay lines with the OTops at about 25 metres. I believe this will work. What are your thoughts?
Here are the specs of the Munson line array i mentioned earlier. It's the Munson TenK Array
Speaker Type 3-way passive full range loudspeaker
Configuration 2x12"+2x10+2x2"+ Horn
Operating range 80Hz-16 kHz
Nominal Impedance HF:2x8Ω, MF: 2x8Ω,, LF: 2x8Ω,
Power Capacity (RMS) HF:300W, MF: 600W,, LF: 800W
Power Capacity (Peak) HF:600W, MF: 1200W,, LF: 1600W
Sensitivity (1W/1M) HF:110dB, MF: 106dB,, LF: 102dB
Max. SPL HF:142dB, MF: 138dB,, LF: 132dB
Dispersions 80º H ×6º V
Horn Exit (dia.) 1"(25mm)
Voice coil 2"(44mm)
Dimensions HWD(mm) 384×1145×750
Built 2 x DR 250
Building 8 DR 250
Built 8 x OTOP 12 JARRAY
Built 2 TITAN 48
48ch & 32ch Sofware Audio Console
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=21253
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=22092
Building 8 DR 250
Built 8 x OTOP 12 JARRAY
Built 2 TITAN 48
48ch & 32ch Sofware Audio Console
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=21253
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=22092
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- Posts: 6915
- Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
- Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
- Contact:
Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
Thanks,
I found the specs here:
http://www.munsonpro.com/en/productdeta ... classid=18
Even that page is only half complete, with Features and Omni View "available soon".
While it is not uncommon for many companies to not provide SPL charts, it always begs the question: Is the company trying to hide something?
There's certainly no way to verify their claims.
I tried to look for a user manual, but you need to be a registered user with password.
That is weird.
I know one importer of a world famous system locally, and even he cannot get TS specs for drivers or SPL charts for products via the parent company.
How many of the Munson cabs did you use per side?
I found the specs here:
http://www.munsonpro.com/en/productdeta ... classid=18
Even that page is only half complete, with Features and Omni View "available soon".
While it is not uncommon for many companies to not provide SPL charts, it always begs the question: Is the company trying to hide something?
There's certainly no way to verify their claims.
I tried to look for a user manual, but you need to be a registered user with password.
That is weird.
I know one importer of a world famous system locally, and even he cannot get TS specs for drivers or SPL charts for products via the parent company.
How many of the Munson cabs did you use per side?
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...
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- Posts: 8325
- Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
- Location: New Braunfels, TX
Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
Methinks English ain't their first language......For venues of One Kilo-people, Ten Kilo-people or dozens of thousand people, TenK Array speaker system can leisurely handle its sound reinforcement. What talent on earth does TenK have? Complex engineering calculations and tests and internal acoustic structure on TenK is dull to users.
6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210
"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."
Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
Grant Bunter wrote:Thanks,
I found the specs here:
http://www.munsonpro.com/en/productdeta ... classid=18
Even that page is only half complete, with Features and Omni View "available soon".
How many of the Munson cabs did you use per side?
We used 12 cabs 6 per side.
Built 2 x DR 250
Building 8 DR 250
Built 8 x OTOP 12 JARRAY
Built 2 TITAN 48
48ch & 32ch Sofware Audio Console
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=21253
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=22092
Building 8 DR 250
Built 8 x OTOP 12 JARRAY
Built 2 TITAN 48
48ch & 32ch Sofware Audio Console
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=21253
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=22092
Re: OTOP 12 JARRAY PROJECT.
Guys I've been checking Pulseman's setup of OT12 and T48 combination and I feel cool already.
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=17611
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=17611
Built 2 x DR 250
Building 8 DR 250
Built 8 x OTOP 12 JARRAY
Built 2 TITAN 48
48ch & 32ch Sofware Audio Console
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=21253
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=22092
Building 8 DR 250
Built 8 x OTOP 12 JARRAY
Built 2 TITAN 48
48ch & 32ch Sofware Audio Console
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=21253
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=22092