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 Post subject: T24 home setup options
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 374
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Hi all,

Currently assisting a friend build his T24 (18" wide, 3010LF) and it's nearing completion. Looking at amps/dsp for him and need some advice, as his setup will be different from my own.

His usage is mainly for home, and he has a couple of wharfdale 2-way tops which I'll modify to have speakons. They struggle to replicate sub 100hz at any decent volume but crossed over they will be fine. His T24 will mostly be sitting in a corner and the system be used for playing records, at this stage with a single record player. My question is, what amp out there will be able to provide:

1. 70V (3010LF needs 60V for full noise, this allows some headroom)
2. Brick wall limiting
3. Parametric EQ + Crossover
4. Phono input capability

Closest I can think of would be iNuke3000dsp, but would need a preamp/phono for his turntable, which would also need an xlr adapter to plug the input into the amp.

Other options I have thought of:

Phono/preamp > miniDSP > PA amp > 1 ch to sub, 1 ch to tops (setup lacks brick wall - unless miniDSP provides this?)

Phono/preamp > DCX/Driverack > PA amp > 1 ch sub, 1 ch tops (seems overkill for home system / hifi)

Does an all-in-one amp exist, combining high power/dsp/limiting/phono input? I'm thinking likely not! Any thoughts appreciated.

Cheers,

Dan

_________________
Built:
6 T30 (24", 3012LF)
2 OT12 (MA, 3012HO)

Running:
DCX2496
XTi 2002
XTi 4002
TRAKTOR Z2
TECHNICS 1210 Mk5's


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Posts: 6127
Location: New Braunfels, TX
commander_dan wrote:
Hi all,

Currently assisting a friend build his T24 (18" wide, 3010LF) and it's nearing completion. Looking at amps/dsp for him and need some advice, as his setup will be different from my own.

His usage is mainly for home, and he has a couple of wharfdale 2-way tops which I'll modify to have speakons. They struggle to replicate sub 100hz at any decent volume but crossed over they will be fine. His T24 will mostly be sitting in a corner and the system be used for playing records, at this stage with a single record player. My question is, what amp out there will be able to provide:

1. 70V (3010LF needs 60V for full noise, this allows some headroom)
2. Brick wall limiting
3. Parametric EQ + Crossover
4. Phono input capability

Closest I can think of would be iNuke3000dsp, but would need a preamp/phono for his turntable, which would also need an xlr adapter to plug the input into the amp.

Other options I have thought of:

Phono/preamp > miniDSP > PA amp > 1 ch to sub, 1 ch to tops (setup lacks brick wall - unless miniDSP provides this?)

Phono/preamp > DCX/Driverack > PA amp > 1 ch sub, 1 ch tops (seems overkill for home system / hifi)

Does an all-in-one amp exist, combining high power/dsp/limiting/phono input? I'm thinking likely not! Any thoughts appreciated.

Cheers,

Dan


Hard to tell exactly how you are trying to set this up. Since you'll be in stereo along with a sub, you'll need three amps....so, a couple of stereo amps or a 4 channel amp. The new QSC 4 channel has all the processing you need and plenty of power....just expensive.

You need some way to easily control volume, so some kind of little mixer would be good....along with a phono pre-amp to get to line level.

A little more info on the setup and what gear is available....

_________________

6 - T39 4-25" 2-22" 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512 Melded/NSD2005
1 - T24
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:47 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 374
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Bruce Weldy wrote:
A little more info on the setup and what gear is available....


Cheers Bruce, I'll explain further.

I forgot about the mixer. I'll recommend he picks up a used 2 channel DJ mixer I suppose, which will have in-built phono input for line level for the turntable (he also has vague aspirations to mix records down the track).

Setup chain will be as usual:

1. Turntable > 2. Mixer > 3. DSP/limiter > 4. Amp(s) > 5. speakers

I guess I was hoping there might be a device which performs the function of 2, 3 and 4 in one unit. Next best would be 3 and 4 together in one unit, ie amp with DSP. I have no experience using an amp with onboard DSP, such as INUKE series. Are the channels independent, so as to be able to run the system in mono using 1 amp? For example, run the sub off one channel and daisy chain the tops off the other channel (with appropriate routing)?

Would like to avoid having to buy two amps. Will have to see if my friend would be happy to run tops in mono for now (don't think that would be a drama) as it would save $$.

Can anyone confirm if the miniDSP 2x4 unit performs the function of a brick wall limiter? (I think it has compression/limiting but not sure if that’s the same thing).

If all too hard I'll just have him pick up a DCX and do it the way I know how.

_________________
Built:
6 T30 (24", 3012LF)
2 OT12 (MA, 3012HO)

Running:
DCX2496
XTi 2002
XTi 4002
TRAKTOR Z2
TECHNICS 1210 Mk5's


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Posts: 5665
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
I take it the longer range plan is to take the T24 out to play.

There's no way you need to run a single T24 3010LF loaded to max at home playing records.
It might make it impossible to play them if pushed to hard lol.

30-40V will be unbearable in a house. What am I saying, I struggle to get my T39's (BP102's, so 35V) to max outdoors!
I dunno, maybe a 2.1 receiver will do the trick at home.

But out to play is a different kettle of fish of course.
There's Inukes.
There's this too:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Samson-S ... Sw1aVZwIse

See what you think...

_________________
Built:
2 x DR 250 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
4 x 20" BP102 T39's, 2 x 28" 3012lf loaded underway.
3 x WH8 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:24 pm
Posts: 6343
Location: Sarnia, Ont. Canada
The miniDSP 2x4 has a plug-in available that does "stereo out plus sub" ( http://www.minidsp.com/images/documents ... lug-in.pdf ), but it does not have limiting as far as I could tell.

_________________
TomS


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 374
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Grant Bunter wrote:
I take it the longer range plan is to take the T24 out to play.

Perhaps down the track but for now it would only see the odd house party here and there

There's no way you need to run a single T24 3010LF loaded to max at home playing records.
It might make it impossible to play them if pushed to hard lol.

Correct, it's overkill but I had another friend who wanted a T24 as well so we built two at the same time for simplicity..

30-40V will be unbearable in a house. What am I saying, I struggle to get my T39's (BP102's, so 35V) to max outdoors!
I dunno, maybe a 2.1 receiver will do the trick at home.

Is it ok to use a 2.1 receiver without a brickwall limiter for home use, say if the amp can only put out 20V or some similar output? What happens if he overdrives the amp, I'm assuming it would clip out.

But out to play is a different kettle of fish of course.
There's Inukes.
There's this too:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Samson-S ... Sw1aVZwIse

See what you think...

Thanks Grant, looks good, will keep mulling it over


_________________
Built:
6 T30 (24", 3012LF)
2 OT12 (MA, 3012HO)

Running:
DCX2496
XTi 2002
XTi 4002
TRAKTOR Z2
TECHNICS 1210 Mk5's


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:12 am
Posts: 5665
Location: Ilfracombe Queensland Australia
commander_dan wrote:
Perhaps down the track but for now it would only see the odd house party here and there.


Get (whatever ends up being used to run the system eventually) sorted first naturally.

commander_dan wrote:
Is it ok to use a 2.1 receiver without a brickwall limiter for home use, say if the amp can only put out 20V or some similar output? What happens if he overdrives the amp, I'm assuming it would clip out.


For his own home, I can't see why not.
If the application was Pro sound, I would absolutely say brickwall limit.
But this (at least initially) just happens to be a pro sound sub, in a HT environment.
Generally, it's not said to limit in the HT environment, because more often than not the volume gets to loud to tolerate before you reach limits.
And this is the case here. Add in that if you (well your mate) gets to loud, the record needle will jump, hop and skip all over the place unless there are adequate means to prevent that, and that also becomes a limiting factor.
If a 2.1 unit could be picked up at a reasonable price, I can't see why not. That gives some time to sort out the rest as well.
If the amp is pushed to hard, it will clip, or distortion will become evident, always a sign to turn down.

Don't forget cabin gain in the HT environment either. That means the T24 will sound great, with lower extension, in the home, but not so when out to play...

_________________
Built:
2 x DR 250 (melded array) with March 2012 plans.
4 x 20" BP102 T39's, 2 x 28" 3012lf loaded underway.
3 x WH8 with melded array.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...


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