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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:58 pm 
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Grant Bunter wrote:
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After a first look, the process is to route a 3/8 bit to put the piping in.


That sounds way to big a channel.
3/8" is 10mm.

Based on appearance only from the pics you posted, I'm thinking the piping would only be 2,5-3mm all up. Surely not more than 5mm...


Sorry, I wrote too fast... I have to be careful on inches to centimeters an mm conversions... The channel is something like 1/8 and 3/16.

And to answer to DJPhatman, I think I'll glue the piping in the channel, so it won't move. And if it looks a little worn after stage and rehearsal abuse, that's fine for me! ;)

See you soon for some other questions, I've got an idea I must draw first to ask you if you think it can be done...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:52 am 
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Hello again! ;)

Here's the question of the day...

The rectangular option of the XF212 is something like 16" high. I would like to make mine something like 21 1/4" high (closer to the heigh of an orange/matamps cab).

I don't want to mod anything to the baffles as they are angles in the cuts. So my idea to increase the height of the cab is to make a box under the cab : I would do the side with the same depth, but taller (21 1/4 high). I'd put the top and bottom were they are supposed to be, so the baffles remain unchanged.

Under the bottom, my sides would exceed about 5 1/4", and that would allow me to have a storage compartment under the cab, with a rear door, to store my instrument and amp cables.

I hope everything makes sense... I tried to make a drawing of my idea, don't know if that can help... it's a pdf, and you can see it here : http://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2015/08/25/schematic/

Anyway, my concern is the following : the interior of the cab is padded with some daming material, and, if I do such a "storage compartment" under the cab, I could padd it the same way if needed, but I would like to know if this coud change something in the way the cab woulf sound? I wouldn't like this storage compartment to create some king of resonance chamber, altering the frequency response of the whole cabinet...

The two compartments, to call them this way (the cab/baffle compartment, and the storage compartment) would be totally independant, and airtight, but they would share the sides and bottom parts of the cab.

Do you have an idea on this?

Could it be done, or is it a bad idea?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:16 am 
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I may be wrong but, I believe the main reason for Bill's design of the X*** is to reduce beaming (person sitting in the 5th row, 3rd seat to the right getting killed by the guitar) AND tilt the speakers up for the player to hear them better.
I don't think a compartment below them is an issue at all; especially damping. But, I simply use an amp stand to get my cab higher. And I'm considering altering my cab http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=22697 to further point it right at me. I love to hear "Turn up the guitar!" as opposed to looking out into the person in the 5th row, 3rd seat to the right plugging their ears.
Simplify :)
And, have fun. It's an easy cab to build, even with all it's angles and such

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2 20" T39 3012LF - WH10 - WH8 - in the shop - 2 more 20" T39s
http://saltandlighteureka.org still need a trailer :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:29 am 
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That size may not be a problem, but be forewarned.....it can act as a resonant chamber and really excite certain frequencies.

A few years back, I built a rolling cab with two drawers that my amp sat on. It was great - everything went in the drawers, it had wheels on the bottom and tiltback wheels.

Only problem.....when the volume got up, A would sing like a canary....or, more like a lion. Took me a while to figure out that it was the box underneath that was causing it. But, I had a lot of volume.....yours may not be a problem.

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1 - T24
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:51 am 
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ripNdeb wrote:
But, I simply use an amp stand to get my cab higher. And I'm considering altering my cab http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=22697 to further point it right at me. I love to hear "Turn up the guitar!" as opposed to looking out into the person in the 5th row, 3rd seat to the right plugging their ears.
Simplify :)
And, have fun. It's an easy cab to build, even with all it's angles and such


Sure I'm already having fun!

Of course ripNdeb, I could use an amp stand to raise my rig, but, as said Bill, I'm concerned about my rig's look, and I prefer taller cabs, so 21 1/4 or something like that in height would be, IMO, better looking than 16 or so... and the idea of a compartment under is for convenience, because this way, I could store all my cables in my cab (and why not my guitar strap, and one or two other accessories...) :)

But first of all, I'm concerned with my tone, that's why I'm asking about this compartment.

Last thing for today (I think so), about the wood : would some 15mm (3/8") poplar plywood be a good choice?

To me it seems to bet the best bet in terms of thickness for routing, weight and solidity...

I'm not sure baltic birch would be better because I've read tone is more focused, so maybe a poplar would sound warmer/draker, and so more vintage, while being lighter? Any idea on this?

Oh, and to respond to Bruce, I'm going to play quite loud, so in could be a concern... everything should be tight, lined with damping material, but I don't want annoying unwanted resonance...

So I think I'll wait for more opinions/answers, but thank you for your answers!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:10 pm 
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Bbr6704 wrote:
Last thing for today (I think so), about the wood : would some 15mm (3/8") poplar plywood be a good choice?
15mm is 5/8". It will be fine. You'll have to adjust the parts sizes.
Quote:
I'm not sure baltic birch would be better because I've read tone is more focused
Proof positive that you should not believe everything that you read. :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:03 pm 
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Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
Bbr6704 wrote:
Last thing for today (I think so), about the wood : would some 15mm (3/8") poplar plywood be a good choice?
15mm is 5/8". It will be fine. You'll have to adjust the parts sizes.
Quote:
I'm not sure baltic birch would be better because I've read tone is more focused
Proof positive that you should not believe everything that you read. :roll:


Sorry for the 3 instead of the 5, I often write too fast on my keyboard...

For the difference in tone, it's hard to know, but it seems to be a consensus about birch and poplar souding different. Some say it should be more focused with birch, some that poplar gives a more woody tone, but apart doing 2 identical cabs, one in birch and the other in poplar, wich I won't do, it's hard to know what the difference is...

Anyway, I made my jack10 with 1/2 popla r plywood, it's lightweight, strong, and good sounding, so I'll stay with poplar, but this time in 5/8...

Oh, and Bill, have you got a suggestion about my compartment under the cab, is it a bad idea tonally speaking???


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:39 pm 
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Bbr6704 wrote:
For the difference in tone, it's hard to know, but it seems to be a consensus about birch and poplar souding different. Some say it should be more focused with birch, some that poplar gives a more woody tone, but apart doing 2 identical cabs, one in birch and the other in poplar, wich I won't do, it's hard to know what the difference is...


Different wood types and tone tends to be subjective, not objective. Subjective meaning a person or a number of persons opinion(s), not fact or measured, which is objective.

If you were talking about resonant things like say a guitar or a drum shell, then there is a lot of information around about the subjective opinions that people say or have, suggesting that differing wood type can display tonal changes.
Such comments may include descriptive words like warmer, smoother and so on, but they are subjective because they are warmer or smoother than ?????.
Certainly, in musical instruments, people want their instruments made of the timbers they prefer, based on reading, research and others opinions. Does that mean they are measurably different?
Not really, because there are simply to many variables to make apples to apples comparisons.

The same idea shouldn't extend itself to speaker cabs of any description though.
Speaker cabs, in the perfect world, should not resonate. That means they shouldn't add any "colour" to tone.
It is a fact though that different ply types have different weights or density, and some are easier to work with than others, because, for example, they tend to warp less.

So your choice of poplar as a cab building material should be about having a lighter in weight cab compared to a birch one, rather than tone.
However, a cab made of birch ply may be easier to build because it tends to warp less.
One thing is certain. A cab made of poplar ply will not take the knocks and bumps that a cab made of birch ply will. Poplar "bruises" and marks quite easily...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:40 pm 
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Bbr6704 wrote:
For the difference in tone, it's hard to know, but it seems to be a consensus about birch and poplar souding different. Some say it should be more focused with birch, some that poplar gives a more woody tone,
Some believe in Santa Claus, some believe in the Easter Bunny, some believe in 'compassionate conservatism'... :noob:
Tone woods matter in instruments. A speaker cabinet where the wood contributes to the tone is defective.
The compartment shouldn't pose an issue.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:00 am 
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Ok, everything is orederd for building my cab!

I started a new thread in the build threads section : http://www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23171

See you there! ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:45 pm 
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Bruce Weldy wrote:
The baffles are slanted in and back, so you won't be putting piping on those panels anyway. You'll have to build a frame for the grill cloth....put the piping on there.


That's what I did. I borrowed an old empty Marshall cab from a friend to get the measurements. I mounted 12 or "backer" pieces which I planned to put Velcro on, but the fit was tight enough that I never needed it.

FWIW, the actual Marshall cab grill/baffle is slanted slightly on the 1960b version. And, they are constructed of 1/2" ply, the baffle mounts from the rear. The "thick" frame is just an added frame, with the piping attached to it. The cab I used as a pattern was a "dummy" unloaded cab, the tolex had been stripped off and painted black. Amazingly light.

Cutting those slots and tolex to get the piping in for the gold trim pieces was a major PIA, as they run over the big roundover edge.

*edit* posted before reading entire thread, I see that you don't want piping on the grill. But the slots are the same. There is no reason to use 3/4" wood, the gold piping uses a 1/8" slot. You'll want just round piping, no tab - I think you can find white sold for sewing or other uses that will be cheaper than buying from the amp cab parts dealers.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:05 pm 
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Thank you Mark for your answer. I guess routing the channel for the side piping is going to be a hard time, but I think I'll have some help from a friend and, anyway, I HAVE to do it... :)


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