Is it nonsense? or is there really something to this notion. If two subwoofers have equal measured response (frequency response curve) why do people say that one is more musical than the other? Also, why is it that people say that sealed subwoofers are more "musical" than horns. When I say "they" I'm referring to both a few misinformed (i hope) audio professionals and john doe's. Is it the overhang/waterfall plots? Also, people say that the TT is more musical than the THT, why is that? Any elaboration would help clear this up! I know that the word "clean" tends to be the same as "low distortion" which I do know is measurable. However if that were the case then everyone would agree that horns are more musical because they have some of the lowest distortion figures out there.
I'm also not sure if this belongs in the "everything else" section so let me know if it needs to be moved.
Musicality of subwoofers
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Musicality of subwoofers
Built
2 x TLAH
1 Titan 39 (lab 12, 15 inch)
1 Tuba 60 (lab 12, 20 inch)
SLA Center
2 x Mini MLTP subwoofers
1 x 212 TH (custom)
2 x Mini-Karlsonators
Owned, but not built
2 x Jack 12 (2512, melded)
2 x TLAH
1 Titan 39 (lab 12, 15 inch)
1 Tuba 60 (lab 12, 20 inch)
SLA Center
2 x Mini MLTP subwoofers
1 x 212 TH (custom)
2 x Mini-Karlsonators
Owned, but not built
2 x Jack 12 (2512, melded)
- Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
- Posts: 28619
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
Re: Musicality of subwoofers
It's nonsense. Most of the qualities that laymen call 'musical', like pitch definition and transient response, don't even occur in the subwoofer pass band. There's a notion out there that a sub that works very well to 20Hz for HT for some reason won't work as well in the 40-80Hz music range as a sub that doesn't go that low. Said notion is just plain silly.MissileCrisis wrote:Is it nonsense?
Re: Musicality of subwoofers
maybe the quality of the amp also plays its part on that, i mean there is no point on the tone definition but damping, cone control and how the amp do its work of taking juice from the grid and made the most of it might make someone reach that cojncluision
There is a very thin line between fail and success. It is very thin so, why are you scared???
MADE
4- OT12'S BETAII
4 T39'S 20" 3012LF LOADED
ON THE BENCH: 2 OT212
MADE
4- OT12'S BETAII
4 T39'S 20" 3012LF LOADED
ON THE BENCH: 2 OT212
- Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
- Posts: 28619
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
Re: Musicality of subwoofers
'Quality' is the operative word. If it's a cheap sub it won't sound good no matter what you use it for. And if it's a good sub it will sound good whatever the application.Israel wrote:maybe the quality of the amp also plays its part on that, i mean there is no point on the tone definition but damping, cone control and how the amp do its work of taking juice from the grid and made the most of it might make someone reach that cojncluision
Re: Musicality of subwoofers
I am not a proffesional by any means, but I really do enjoy music and ht reproduced as dynamic and correct as possible.
I have eperience with SVS Ultra 13, Ken Kreisel dxd 12012 and Velodyne DD18.
They are all great subwoofers, measures about the same in room, but sounds totally different.
The SVS has a bottom end, say below about 25hz that none of the above can touch, but at higher frequencys, above 40 hz, it just isnt musical enough for critical musical listening.
The Velodyne kicks like a mule in the midbass, try the movie We Were Soldiers with Mel Gibson and you will understand. When they fire their m16, its a very physical experince.
The Ken Kreisel does not match the SVS in the bottom, nor can it touch the Velodyne in the midbass, but it is one of the most musical sobwoofers I have ever heard. I can not pin point exactly what it does so right, but at both music and ht it is the best I have experienced yet.
I have had a couple of Lab12s for a couple of months now, I will build two slim THTs in the near future.
I am really excited in how they will perform.
Cbarth
I have eperience with SVS Ultra 13, Ken Kreisel dxd 12012 and Velodyne DD18.
They are all great subwoofers, measures about the same in room, but sounds totally different.
The SVS has a bottom end, say below about 25hz that none of the above can touch, but at higher frequencys, above 40 hz, it just isnt musical enough for critical musical listening.
The Velodyne kicks like a mule in the midbass, try the movie We Were Soldiers with Mel Gibson and you will understand. When they fire their m16, its a very physical experince.
The Ken Kreisel does not match the SVS in the bottom, nor can it touch the Velodyne in the midbass, but it is one of the most musical sobwoofers I have ever heard. I can not pin point exactly what it does so right, but at both music and ht it is the best I have experienced yet.
I have had a couple of Lab12s for a couple of months now, I will build two slim THTs in the near future.
I am really excited in how they will perform.
Cbarth
- Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
- Posts: 28619
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
Re: Musicality of subwoofers
If they sound different, they measure different. If they sound different and don't measure different, you're measuring the wrong thing.cbarth wrote: They are all great subwoofers, measures about the same in room, but sounds totally different.
Re: Musicality of subwoofers
That is probably correct.
The subwoofers have most likely some built in dsp/eq in them, so I am measuring the result of that.
I am also adjusting the level with the gain, as there are probably major differense in sensetivity of the raw drivers in cab.
Subwoofers of different alignment, size, driver specs, amp specs, etc will make them sound different. I think all subwoofers have some sort of compromise. The goal is to find the one with the right compromise for you.
But if you build the subwoofers yourself, you can choose to not go for the biggest compromise of them all; size!
Cbarth
Cbarth
The subwoofers have most likely some built in dsp/eq in them, so I am measuring the result of that.
I am also adjusting the level with the gain, as there are probably major differense in sensetivity of the raw drivers in cab.
Subwoofers of different alignment, size, driver specs, amp specs, etc will make them sound different. I think all subwoofers have some sort of compromise. The goal is to find the one with the right compromise for you.
But if you build the subwoofers yourself, you can choose to not go for the biggest compromise of them all; size!
Cbarth
Cbarth