Question on setup - Clipping XTI

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y2kindyz
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Location: MISSION, TX

Question on setup - Clipping XTI

#1 Post by y2kindyz »

Ok guys hope this section is the place to post

This is my setup: Behringer XENYX 1002 Mixer, DBX Drive Rack Pro PX, XTI 1002 (mains), EP2500 (T30's), BEhringer B1520 mains, and 2 24" T30's.

Last night I was playing for a youth dance and the clip light on my XTI 1002 would come on every once in a while. I didn't have my DMM with me so I don't know what the voltage was. The sound never distorted or sounded bad. I have my limiter set for the EP2500 going to the T30"s at 35V. After I saw the light come on, I lowered the main on the mixer and watched it a little closer.

My question is: When setting the limiter on the DBX PX does it limit the the mains too? I know that the EP2500 and T30's will out run the XTI 1002 and the B1520's, but does it hurt anything is the amp clip light intermittently? By that I mean blink on every 5-10 second depending on song playing?

I am going to play again tonight and I wanna make sure that I don't burn anything up.

Thanks in advance,

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Question on setup - Clipping XTI

#2 Post by Bruce Weldy »

You can set a limiter on the mains using the driverack...just like you do for the subs.

However, those boxes can take more than your xti can put out. It's rated at 275 watts at 8ohms. Behringer claims the box can take 1200 watts. So, even if it can actually handle half of that - it's more than the amp can give - so you are probably pushing the amp to far.

Get a bigger amp or turn it down. Another option is to raise the crossover frequency - less low end to the mains will let you have them louder with less power, thus less clipping. Where are they crossed now?

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Question on setup - Clipping XTI

#3 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Bruce Weldy wrote: However, those boxes can take more than your xti can put out. It's rated at 275 watts at 8ohms. Behringer claims the box can take 1200 watts. .
The spec I find on the Behringer site says the 1520 is rated for 200w RMS. I'd get rid of them in any event, in favor of more sensitive OTops or DRs.

Grant Bunter
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Re: Question on setup - Clipping XTI

#4 Post by Grant Bunter »

My question is: When setting the limiter on the DBX PX does it limit the the mains too? I know that the EP2500 and T30's will out run the XTI 1002 and the B1520's, but does it hurt anything is the amp clip light intermittently? By that I mean blink on every 5-10 second depending on song playing?
Bruce has already pointed out you can limit your tops with the DBX.

The clip light on your tops amp is an indicator that you're getting nearer to the edge in terms of output. The odd clip isn't harmful, but every 5-10 seconds isn't what I'd call an odd clip. I'd call an odd clip once every minute or so. Also, the duration of the clip is important. If it's a solid clip (light comes on bright red for say a second) that's not so good, if it's just a brief flicker, that's not so bad.

Yes, you can get around clipping every 5-10secs with a more powerful amp. Yes, you can also get more powerful tops. You would need to make a careful assessment of how balanced your subs:tops is sounding in order to decide. Are your Berry's struggling to keep up with your T30's?

When your tops amp clips, are you also getting clipping on the Driverack?

FWIW, if I use one of my XLR1000's (which I originally bought for monitors duty) on my DR's and push the sliders, it clips as well. So I no longer use that amp for tops, unless I'm doing a quieter gig...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Bruce Weldy
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Re: Question on setup - Clipping XTI

#5 Post by Bruce Weldy »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:
Bruce Weldy wrote: However, those boxes can take more than your xti can put out. It's rated at 275 watts at 8ohms. Behringer claims the box can take 1200 watts. .
The spec I find on the Behringer site says the 1520 is rated for 200w RMS. I'd get rid of them in any event, in favor of more sensitive OTops or DRs.
I see what you mean....my search turned up this one - it's the Pro model...same number....

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B1520-PRO.aspx

I guess it would be important to know which one he has.

Why the hell would a manufacturer build two totally different boxes and give 'em the same model number? One more reason to question Behringer.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

y2kindyz
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:54 am
Location: MISSION, TX

Re: Question on setup - Clipping XTI

#6 Post by y2kindyz »

Bruce Weldy wrote: Where are they crossed now?
I have the subs crossed at 80 hz. I do plan on building some OTops but with my schedule it may be a while. The behringers are older mains. I got them at a auction about 7 years ago.

The red clip light would just blink occasionally never solid. I didn't notice the PX clip last night, tonight I did notice the PX hit the limiter when I played a song off of one of the kids iPods. I figured the signal was hotter than the one coming from my computer .

Do you all think I should try running the subs and mains off one channel of the EP2500?

Grant Bunter
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Re: Question on setup - Clipping XTI

#7 Post by Grant Bunter »

If your berry's are keeping up with the T30's until the point your get clipping on the amp for the berry's, it may be worthwhile running in mono off the EP2500, subs on one side, Berrys on the other. Just stay vigilant for distortion in the Berrys.

But if the specs of 200W RMS for the Berrys are right, you're gonna run out of puff sooner rather than later.
So, your choices then are to build Otops sooner than you thought you might have to, or add another pair of tops, as this would add 6dB to tops output. If you were to go this way, you'd want to get something with reasonable resale value. Or move them to a "B" hire rig.

If you find yourself getting to the point where you always seem to be pushing the faders, the most common advice here is add more cabs...
Built:
DR 250: x 2 melded array, 2x CD horn, March 2012 plans.
T39's: 4 x 20" KL3010LF , 2 x 28" 3012LF.
WH8: x 6 with melded array wired series/parallel.
Bunter's Audio and Lighting "like"s would be most appreciated...

Bruce Weldy
Posts: 8301
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Question on setup - Clipping XTI

#8 Post by Bruce Weldy »

y2kindyz wrote:
Bruce Weldy wrote: Where are they crossed now?
I have the subs crossed at 80 hz.
Raise the crossover point. If your mains are the low powered ones (probably are if they are that old), then taking the bottom off of them will reduce the amount of power they are drawing - and that may be enough to keep you from clipping the amp.

Try low passing the subs at 100 and high pass the tops at 110. I bet the lights won't come on as much...if at all.

6 - T39 3012LF
4 - OT12 2512
1 - T24
1 - SLA Pro
2 - XF210


"A system with a few knobs set up by someone who knows what they are doing is always better than one with a lot of knobs set up by someone who doesn't."

y2kindyz
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:54 am
Location: MISSION, TX

Re: Question on setup - Clipping XTI

#9 Post by y2kindyz »

Thank you Bruce and Grant,

I will try and raise the Xover point and see how that works next time I have the system out.

Providing sound is a hobby for me. I have the setup for doing PA stuff for events we do in our family business, and that allows me to help out the church and friends when needed. I plan to replace the berries with OTops. DR's would be nice but they are not go and stop builds, so I am shooting for the OTop 12 with a melded array one of these days. Before that I want to build L/R TLAH's rectangular version and curved SLA for home theater. Then work on getting approval for THT from wife. :fingers:

I have been a member of this forum for about 5 years and I always enjoy reading build threads and all the helpful non-ego advice from the members.

Have a great week

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Tom Smit
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Re: Question on setup - Clipping XTI

#10 Post by Tom Smit »

y2kindyz wrote: Then work on getting approval for THT from wife. :fingers:
Just make sure it's not clothes-drier sized.....unless she's OK with that. An LP laying down (sofa?) or standing up will be more presentable.
TomS

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